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Discussion page forLatest: Directory:Fuel Efficiency > Directory:Fuel Efficiency Hydrogen Injection > Directory:HAFC Hydro Assist Fuel Cell > News:Dateline Accuses Dennis Lee of Fraud - Citing credible third-party testing of an HAFC installation on a Honda Accord, a Dateline special paints Directory:Dennis Lee as a charlatan preying on good people who want to see fuel economy improvement, and who believe that a conspiracy keeps these technologies from going forward. (PESWiki April 8, 2009)
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=61619&page=3#Item_18 - Steorn forum -- Dennis Lee
There has been an extensive dialogue about this episode over on the New Energy Congress forum, including input from Eric Krieg, a foremost skeptic, and Ken Rasumussen, also of NEC, and a dealer for Lee's products. We hope to post some excerpts.
On April 9, 2009, New Energy Congress member, Congress:Member:Eric Krieg wrote:
Dear rational people[...],
It is amazing that Ken has flamed me for ignoring the list of people who have had the orange test "validate" the claim of doubled mileage. To me, an "orange" test means to cash the check and write on a slip that the car gets ridiculous mileage. Whether the lab was controlled by MIBs doesn't mean much - the people listed on web sites and in the court document that I talked to and Dateline talked to did not get the mileage. I talked to the Dateline people since a year ago and after they got their data - they tried to get the most successful car with the highest rated installer-tuner - It didn't work. After all the other people they talked to who were sent through a wild goose chase of retunes, adjustments, new procedures, etc - Dateline just didn't want to take the time to go there. They didn't really take part in recording data (I think they should have) for the spontaneous 57mpg test - they figured do as official a test as possible just once. Ken can blame lack of sales on me if he wants - but I can find NO happy customers and dozens of failures in more than a year of looking. Ken will filibuster on about massive conspiracies - but he won't help us find even one of the said happy customers willing to do a simple hour long test. To me, one of the biggest warning flags of FE crooks out there is the refrain:, "there is lots and lots of incontrovertible here and now proof out there - but none that you will be allowed to see - but please still help us promote it"
On April 8, 2009, New Energy Congress member, Congress:Former Member:Mark Anthony Dansie wrote:
It appears Dateline has saved the NEC a lot of time and effort in conducting these tests and interviewing some clients.
Thank you Sterling for publishing this as many of us do not have access to the dateline program.
Even if you took the test out, the testaments of the many dissatisfied clients spoke volumes.
I would suggest that Dennis or any of his other supporters encourage the anyone who is satisfied to come forward and allow their vehicles to be tested.
I have spent many year travelling the world looking at many devices including Hydroxy, analysing results both conducted in labs and on road tests. There are many Scientific papers published on the effects of hydrogen boosting engines. Unless you are using significant volumes, (at least 30 litres per minute for small vehicles) you will not see anything close to what is claimed in this case.
I have seen up to 20% improvement in older gasoline powered vehicles and up to 13% in diesel engines, but this was mainly due to the units cleaning up the engines. In new vehicles I have never seen anything over 10%. I have seen significant improvement in smoke reduction, Carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon emissions.
Several companies have spent any millions of dollars on developing boosters for trucks, and none claim or can support claims of over 15%.
I am sure that the NEC members have the intelligence to draw their own conclusions from this story and shooting the messengers in this case would be a mass homicide.
On April 8, 2009, New Energy Congress member, Congress:Member:Ken Rasmussen wrote:
I posted a list of the many lies I heard in the outrageously biased and deceptively edited hit piece http://energyblog.commutefaster.com/
Anyone claiming to seek truth, better be man enough to look at ALL the details and not be persuaded by glitzy propaganda pieces like NBC is noted for. Listen carefully again to each "dissatisfied customer." All are "trying" or "thinking about" getting refunds. The fact remains, all failed units purchased from me get refunds. Any claim otherwise are lies. I cannot speak for other dealers, but I know Dennis Lee NEVER told any of them to steal money from anyone. These slipshod accusations here have to stop.
All you have to do to refute Dateline is to produce a single Honda Accord that measures out to 50 or more miles per gallon on a standard EPA loop test drive or in a long everyday test drive on city streets. Then, to really prove it works, turn off the HFAC and compare the mileage. Can you do that in front of press? For example with a consumer reporter from a local station? If so, why don't you do it? Better yet, let me know where to find such a car and I will be delighted to run the test for you and publish the results here and wherever you like. Who cares what Dateline said if you can prove your point? So why don't you please?
Lee has been selling non-working high mileage solutions for 7 years now. He sued me because the truth I post on the web hurt his ability to defraud people. I have been nicely asking to see even one car that gets the mileage for many months. I know of many people who have tried to get it to work and can't in some cases, people have damaged cars or cars that don't run – many can't get their money back. I offered $3000 to the radio station guy who claims over 100mpg – he won't respond. I hope to put together an offer to pay anyone to show me any H2 boost car getting really high mileage.
Popular science who makes a lot of money off ads for high mileage scams would have every reason to announce some work -their expert below has found them to be bunk:
A web site saying all hydrogen boost systems are scams:
(I don't know if they all are bogus - for all I know maybe for some cars or trucks you can get a few mpg more if H2 can act as a catalyst)
a million dollar prize for proof of HHO boost
(Just click on the "
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On April 09, 2009 11:38 AM, Mary Yugo wrote:
I sent for a "price quote" on one of Mr. Lee's PICC devices to his dealer, Jeff Otto. Your readers may want to read these rather lengthy emails without having to entrust their address, phone number and email address to Mr. Otto or filling out his forms. I posted the two emails I received at these links:
The links are with service provider freeservers.com and I've had no problems with them in the past with respect to viruses or malware.
My request for a specific automobile (1998 Buick Regal V6) but the response was generic.
I'm now ready to offer Mr. Lee or any of his dealers $100,000 cash ON THE SPOT for a Honda Accord or equivalent car which delivers the 96 mpg mileage claimed on the Dateline interview. Even more is claimed for similar cars on most of Mr. Lee's and his dealers' ads. The dealer or Mr. Lee can choose a similar car type of comparable weight, size and power if you prefer. I will do the test in full view of the public. I will bring a cashier's check with me for the full amount or cash if you prefer (and pay for the armored car service). You will have to agree to a reasonable test protocol (similar to the EPA's) and to full open publicity including allowing me to notify all the local news television reporters of the test schedule. The car will have to be stock except for the addition of the HFAC and published modifications. All hydrogen used during the test must be made from the fuel measured for the mileage test (you can't bring a cylinder of compressed gas).
To compensate me if you agree and then fail to show, you will need to put up a $5000 bond however it will be forfeited only if you fail to show up and to provide a car for testing. We can let Sterling Allan hold the stakes. If this isn't fair and reasonable, someone please tell me what is! If Mr. Lee and his dealers can't or won't provide a car for this test, please tell us why! I only need a couple of weeks notice and a location within the United States.
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