Lasted edited by Andrew Munsey, updated on June 15, 2016 at 1:32 am.
Discussion page for Directory:Phemax Technology: Microsun Plasmagnetic Alternator
Latest: Directory:Plasma / Directory:Electromagnetic >Directory:Phemax Technology: Microsun Plasmagnetic Alternator - Patent pending device allegedly generates electricity via plasma arc (Microsun) technology, initiated with low voltage, high current, high temperature, thermally conductive, thorium tungsten / graphite electrodes submerged in water. The resulting syngas runs a Phemax generator, which is said to have 5x amplification capability. (PESWiki Aug. 7, 2008)
In trying to understand the plasmagnetic alternator there were some difficulties due to the language barrier but I have a pretty good grasp on these types of systems.
Plasmagnetic Alternator would mean that the device is running on Alternating Current. There is going to be some sort of sine wave inverter and a means of fluctuating the current. The Plasmagnatic effect is what I would consider the effect which Professor Santilli has patented as Magnegas.
As for whether or not the thorium tungsten carbide electrodes have any effect on the overall system.
If thorium is playing some sort of effect then it is due to a nuclear reaction.
This would be a z-pinch type effect which would release neutrons from hydrogen and deuterium. I would suggest testing the off-gas for helium as well as test for x-rays and other forms of radiation.
Nothing is for "FREE".
The rods are consumed in the reaction and need to be replaced.
Professor Santilli does this in a very cost effective manner by processing the slag from treated waste.
I recommend getting Professor Santilli and Tom Kramer to take a look at this thing.
As it is, unless the thorium is playing a part in the reaction I don't see anything special here that has not been done before.
Professor Santilli's system doesn't overcome the inefficiencies of power generation equipment and therefore requires an outside source of energy to recycle waste.
I would not recommend capturing the energy in the form of combustion with thorium electrodes. Any breakdown of the electrodes that may enter the gas will be released into the atmosphere after the combustion cycle thereby releasing radioactive material.
I suggest leaving these types of tests to the professionals under controlled circumstances.
Even if the thorium is playing a role in this type of reactor there are better methods for neutron generation. Perhaps a hybrid system can be developed to bridge the gap between fission and fusion. We have plenty of Thorium and it is a lot safer than Uranium.
Thorium and the nuclear energy argument are a completely different subject all together.
Real quick, if you change out the thorium tungsten rods for regular carbon rods you have a device that has been built by many people and there is nothing new here. The technology has limitations.
I would rather have a Bob Boyce electrolysis setup with carbon aerogel electrodes.
More to come on the hybrid thorium reactors!
It looks like this concept has something to it, though it is poorly documented.
I think it has something to it because a similar process was investigated at Directory:Eugene Mallove's lab before I arrived in 2000. I witnessed the detritus produced in an underwater arc with pure carbon electrodes. The carbon flakes recovered at the bottom of the bath contained magnetic particles, sufficient to be seen in the typical demonstration of iron filings on a piece of paper with a permanent magnet below it. The carbon arcs were tested for elemental composition, and no magnetic elements were present, even in ppm quantities. This kind of underwater arc does produce a nuclear reaction, and possibly that reaction releases thermal energy that can be captured in the gases produced. Mallove's lab was unable to to energy balance testing on this process, so it is not known to me.
There is something which I didn't really notice before in the coils. You sent me the 3D design of the coils and then I went back to look at the other images. There is some sort of electromagnetically induced plasma within the coils.
The 3D plasma has to do with the poloidal and toroidal fields on the x, y, and z axis' much like a polywell configuration.
There are principles in magnetohydrodynamics which have been applied here that I have only seen in fusion reactors. (i.e. polywell device)
The Superconductive Properties of Carbon Nanotubes lend themselves to the potential development of lightweight high density electromagnetic devices. This high density energy has specific applications for space propulsion and advanced flying directed energy weapons, as well as apparati beyond most individuals conception.
Such concepts as the Ring Power Multiplier may be integrated with these materials to assist in opening these doors. This could be a major leap in the advancement of our civilization and is one step closer to harnessing the power of antimatter and potentially developing advanced propulsion systems capable of achieving the speed of light.
The other door which may open is solid state magnetic propulsion systems.
Self powered maglev trains without the infrastructure costs of the superconductive magnetic rails in the tracks!?
These types of developments will require substantial amounts of money to develop.
Thermionic principles may apply to certain applications for direct energy conversion although there needs to be a more efficient means of capturing the energy.
On August 08, 2008 12:00 PM, New Energy Congress member, Earl wrote:
My analysis is that there are two completely separate systems being
The underwater arc is most likely a Magnagas type of arc and in my opinion
NOT very interesting as a OU device. If an OU device with electrical
would exist one day, any underwater arc using carbon electrode(s) would
create a hydrocarbon gas and could be used during the transition from ICEs
to all-electric drive transportation.
The photo h-type-pulse.JPG, I find extremely interesting. This appears
very similar to the so-called HIPPY motor-generator invented around 1969
by a Hippy commune in San Francisco. This type of generator uses electro-
magnets in a stator firing against magnets in the rotor in a repelling mode.
The "splatter" magnetic field after bending 90 degrees is collected by coils
and the Hippies rectified this with diodes and sent this power back to the
battery supply. This was all publically released on the EV Gray list a
of years ago, complete with images. An ex-member of this commune, who
did the machining work, said the battery could be removed and the motor
would continue to run and even supply power for lighting.
I could easily believe that a HIPPY motor-generator replication could be
OU, and I even think that I understand where this energy is coming from.
I have always been fascinated by the HIPPY motor-generator and it would
be cool if this is a working replication.
As to photo /mg-2000-1.JPG, I am unable to make any comments, as I do
not understand what is being presented.
I am attaching some of his work.
As I said before, these systems are not new. In working on my systems I implemented a series of modified Hotsabi cells. I have studied all of the water OU device principles over the years which is how I got involved with the NEC. I am sticking with Tom Kramer on this one and say credit should be given where credit is due. Dr. Santilli, Stanley Meyer, Peter Lawry, Bob Boyce, Jean Louis Naudine. Professor Kanarev, Professor Chukanov and Daniel Dingle are the names I have come to respect in this field. Can't forget the great Messiah and his Noblefuse device.
What people don't realize is that even the Blacklight Power system applies many of the same principles. If we can figure this thing out in a manner which is accepted by the scientific community then we could have abundant, reliable, and clean energy from water.
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On August 8, 2008, 11:14 AM, Tom Kramer wrote:
As noted, this process uses graphite (carbon) electrodes which is the source of
the carbon monoxide in the gas produced. This is the same as Santilli's
Magnegas so there is nothing new other than mixing Thorium with the Tungsten for
the other electrode. that electrode usually doesn't need replacing if the
arc doesn't hit the same place too often. Also, note that there is no flow
through the arc which will lead to less efficiency as the gases will reform into
water as they migrate away from the plasma center.
It is also not an AC system as you cannot run an AC arc. The stack of
rotating coils appear to be acting like a DC rotor switch like in your car but a
bit more complicated than need be.
Santilli still owns the high ground here and his voltage monitoring and control
unit together with his electrode feed system and flow control is still the best
way to go.
The info shown on this new system is just another plasma arc under water. I
don't see anything earth shaking about it. And FREE it ain't. You have
to consume carbon in the water (sewage, waste oil, etc) in concentrations above
5% in order to make more gas out than is needed to run the generators needed to
run the arc. Above 5% carbon concentration you have excess magnegas for any
Also note that with increased carbon in the water solution, you save on your
carbon electrode consumption. The Plasmagatron does not have a carbon electrode
feed and thus it will burn out quickly and have to be replaced regularly and is
thus not a practical commercial alternative. Poor design. big Hype over a poor
copy of others works as I see it.