Lasted edited by Andrew Munsey, updated on June 15, 2016 at 1:27 am.
Discussion page for Directory:Greer:The Orion Project
Directory:Greer:The Orion Project - After 18 years of combing the planet for a plausible, working free energy technology that his colleagues could help bring to the world, Dr. Steven Greer's next move is to gather $3 million in donations to establish a research organization that can fabricate such a technology.
On March 19, 2008,
There was an error working with the wiki: Code wrote:
If Dr. Greer has so many gov't contacts, it would seem to me he'd whip up a gov't contract for all these scientists. And isn't he trying to re-invent what's already being worked on? Goood luck.
In looking again at their donation page: http://www.theorionproject.org/en/donate.html I see that they have raised $46,000 beyond their initial pledge of $250,000, which is contingent on them receiving the full $3 million. I don't know if that $250k is also time-dependent. "To achieve this, our goal is to raise $3 Million in the next 60 days." That was posted at least by March 17, so they're more than half way through the time, and are obviously not well on their way to achieving their fundraising objective.
In asking why Greer isn't drawing in more support, considering his broad base of contacts and fans, my guess is that there are several detrimental factors at work:
1) Money tends to flow after success, and so far, he's only drummed up hype, with really nothing to show for all his effort thus far -- no working device ready to go commercial. People want to see something real before the put money down. It's very hard to raise money on just the hope of something coming from it. He would be better served to grow into what he's envisioning, growing from one success to another.
2) Money also follows the right team. As a major alpha male with a more than healthy ego, he does not have a good reputation as a team player, and what he is proposing would require more than one strong player with pull at the top.
I like Steve, and I like his ideas and motivation and plans. I wish him success, but am not very optimistic that this Orion Project will materialize.
On May 01, 2008, Vlad of http://ZPEnergy.com wrote:
Gentlemen, these type of initiatives in the new-energy business are
not new. Even Greer is at his second attempt - he had SEAS before
Orion. None of them succeeded and they never will since there are
fundamental errors in their design.
Sterling got it right with "...money tend to follow after success
...people want to see something real ...". The proper validation of
these FE claims must be the first thing to be taken care of, and the
rest will be a breeze to accomplish.
"Proper validation" means:
1. Challenging the science community in a world-wide media publicized
event (a la Steorn this is in my opinion the only way FE will
breakthrough ...if it indeed exists).
2. Fair test conditions agreed upon and monitored by both skeptic and
promoter scientists to avoid any possible interference by vested
interests (it happened before, since the stakes are huge)
3. Substantial prize for success, no risk to loose money for the
participants (public). You need that to lure greedy but legitimate
inventors and to attract large sums from participants by "money back
guarantee" in case no winners.
4. NDA insured and no strings attached to successful validation
inventor is free to do whatever (s)he wants with his IP and money from
winning the validation prize (this is where Greer and many other
projects like his, forcing conditions on device development "to bring
it to market", will fail by scaring most honest inventors from even
showing up). Greed on both sides has killed and will kill any such
arrangements in the future.
5. Involving the public and big organizations, big time, by a
sustained and effective media campaign on the need for such a
"discovery" process to encourage private research and innovation
outside of the traditional academic environment. Wide knowledge of
every invention to be validated is the best protection against
Of course, for those who remember it, I am describing my Xtreme Science Foundation and XS-NRG Prize proposal. http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=19 I'm happy to tell you
that it seems the proposal has caught the attention of a few magazines
and the BBC science series for a TV documentary on new-energy
technologies (under the Jay May's Big Ideas program).
I know the NEC has abstained from any help/involvement with this
proposal (which was and still is very disappointing to me), but I
think it agreed to put together a separate Top 20 list of O/U devices
that many NEC members have been involved with in one way or another
and would like to see them properly validated. The Top 10 of this list
will be officially invited on the XSF site to prove their claims as
mentioned above (see also my detailed posts on the XSF here or on
ZPEnergy.com site in the Survey, Special Sections, etc.). It is
important to focus on those technologies that have a demonstrable
working prototype (such as Steve Marks', Correa's, the EBM, Perendev,
etc.) and rank them in order of "urgency" to be tested (say best
chances to be real). I thank you for your help.
On May 05, 2008, saad of http://unificationproject.blogspot.com/
A more efficient strategy that will rise audience ==> rise donation ==> create hundreds of projects: ask the open source community to contribute.
Push the Scientific establishment to accept that the thermodynamic law of energy conservation is not absolute and that there exists systems that breaks this law and create over unity.
Stop calling over unity as pseudo-science. And give it a science terminology
Correct all the scientific teaching programs all over the world
Create a real debate in the world scientific community about challenging the thermodynamic law of energy conservation with a Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy (SMOT) at all education levels (from primary school to top university researchers)
Physists and scientists at all levels and all over the world.
The independent over unity researchers community and their fans
The scientific establishment is a very strong and rigid organization, Through human science history, innovations and scientific revolutions was mainly achieved by out of the zone researchers: Galileo, Huygens, Einstein, Lorentz, Maxwell…that have faced the establishment with a lot of difficulties
But in the other hand technological innovation always came from independent researchers: Tesla, schauberger, Steam engine inventors, Montgolfier brothers. Wright brothers, Stanley meyer… that have faced alone the establishment.
Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy are the most simple to build because it's a purely mechanical. And there is already thousands of prototypes achieved around the globe. But inventors does not know what to do with it! The community will use them for mass communication. Millions of students technicians will love to challenges their professors. Our Job is to give them the tools
challenging the thermodynamic law of energy conservation by giving to the open source community the tools, to face their (current or former) physics professors at all levels of education:
an open source and easy building prototype of SMOT schema with a basic theoretical background
an open source and cheap prototype of SMOT designed for mass production
documentaries, memoires, thesis , presentations, telling that the thermodynamic law of energy conservation is wrong: energy can create over unity energy: The evidence is the prototype.
Organize a contest in PES Wiki, Over unity.DE, , JNL Labs.. This communities regroups around 10.000 committed people and much more fans
SMOT open source schema
N°1: 30.000 $, N°2: 20.000, N°3: 10.000 $ for the easiest to build Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy that not only creates energy to compensate system friction but can power a LED (Light-emitting diode )
SMOT open source plans for mass production.
N°1: 30.000 $, N°2: 20.000, N°3: 10.000 $
SMOT Documentary Contest
Using the first open source data contest (self made SMOT) for Documentary contest of how to build a SMOT by your self. N°1: 12.000 $, N°2: 8.000, N°3: 5.000 $
Challenge Thermodynamic Law of Energy Conservation
Using the previous contests data and evidence to build, thesis, memoires contests that can help each interested person to challenge the scientific establishment: N°1: 12.000 $, N°2: 8.000, N°3: 5.000 $
ORION and the disclosure project will have the support of a very large community that can manage it self, motivate it self and finance it self. With a 150.000 $ incentive for each period contest. Like in overunity principles, the 150.000 $ is the Energy you put in the system. And the system will bring you back much more than you have put in it.
The campaign will need a team of committed technicians and scientists.
to build the Scope Statement of each contests
to define notation criterions
to elect winners and present rankings