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Talk:Article:Hydrogen-Assist Fuel Cell Warning from Former Installer

Lasted edited by Andrew Munsey, updated on June 15, 2016 at 1:30 am.

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Discussion page for Article:Hydrogen-Assist Fuel Cell Warning from Former Installer

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Directory:Buyer Beware / Directory:Fuel Efficiency Hydrogen Injection > Directory:HAFC Hydro Assist Fuel Cell >Article:Hydrogen-Assist Fuel Cell Warning from Former Installer - Richard Coyle said the units sometimes work at first, but then the improvements go away, and in their place some serious problems arise such as stuck idle motors, boiling water and gunk in the motors, plugged air filters. (PESWiki July 22, 2008)



From: Richard Coyle Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 8:38 AM

Yes it is the Dutchman HAFC and Jeff will not refund a guys money

when it failed to give him any improvement, he is now taking it to his credit card company.

Worst he was signed on as a salesman for Jeff and was certified AS a installer, tuner and Instructor.

Yes, I know who it was, and was there when he installed and when he got no improvement and hooking it up caused his A/C not to work.

He owns the Saturn.

Again, these are only approx:

We set up 20 amps and more draws on:

1998 Toyota 3 LT V6 20 amps from 32 to 42 MPG gain 10 MPG Test miles driven 40 Before mods and after

2001 Toyota 1.8 Lt 4Cy.15 amps from 32 to 71MPG gain 39 MPG Test miles driven 51Before mods and after

1987 Dodge Minivan 2 Lt 4Cy. 30 amp, from 12 to 20 MPG gain 8 MPG a couple of tanks full...200+ per tanks. Before mods and after

1998 Caddy Catara 3 Lt V6 30 amp from 18 to 22 MPG gain 4 MPG a couple of tanks full...200+ per tanks Before mods and after

1998 Mercury Sable 2 Lt 4 Cy. 20 amp. from 32 to 43 MPG gain 11 MPG Test miles driven 105 Before mods and after

2002 Hyundai 1.8 Lt. 4 cy. 20 amps from 36 to 81.4 gain 45 MPG Test miles driven 85 Before mods and after

2001 Saturn 1.9 Lt. 4 Cy. no gain but no lost due to load either. System cut A/C so owner removed.

1995 Olds 98, 2 Lt. 4 Cy. no gain but no lost due to load either. Test miles driven 105 Before mods and after three tests.

1999 Toyota truck, 2 lt. 4 Cy. no gain but no lost due to load either. Test miles driven 40 Before mods and after

All tests done with full tanks using cars dip stick to set a reading in tank neck, all tests done on the 101 freeway in north Phoenix, all test done with curse control set for 65 MPH.

We used the same pump and gas station, same gas, as close to same time and conduction's. (we usually have lunch at the 51 mile point, a truck stop turn around point.)

We had cars delivered with full tanks and only added a couple of gals after warm up and tuning, to minimize thermo-expansion of gas.

Scanners were used in all most all tests.

Almost all cars were tested stock by driving over test road then modified, and retested over same road.

Up until we tested the HAFC on a precomputer '87 Dodge Minivan, we were told the problem was the computer undoing our gains.

Then we found that the HAFC keeps losing power after a week or two, On a Van with no computer.

We think it is one of two things or both.

Dirty water.

Used up chemical, we use KOH or NaOH, 4 to 5 Heaping table spoons full to 1 and 1/2 Qt. of distilled water.

I think we are burning the chemical, even to the point of getting burned left over that gunk up out tanks and lines.

So it is both...

Our observations have been 30 amps. 2 LPM and get 12 MPG to go to 20MPG for about a week, then fading everything, amp draw drops off, gas output falls off and MPG drops off, when is gets to 10 amps and almost no gas output we have to dump all the water and replace it with fresh water AND chemical, it all comes back, again for a week to two weeks..on about the third or forth time around the tank and water is so dirty we need to flush it all out.

My chemist whom supplies us when asked said: “KOH and HaOH is mainly hydrogen and Oxygen in a chemical form, and at that lever of mix is very bad" And when ask how much would he suggest be used, he said: "As a catalyst and electrolyte he would have suggested 1/2 Teaspoon to 1/2 gal of water."

A major difference between out 5 Tablespoons to his 1/2 teaspoon...

So we are seemly spiking the drink, loading it with Hydro and O2 in chemical form and then breaking the KOH more than the water and thus when the chemical is used up we see the fade out...

Now I am trying to find a system that will make a 2LPM with mainly water and that 1/2 teaspoon of KOH etc. honestly...

OR you pay the price and refresh your water and chemical every week.


Problems with BoomGas?

On July 22, 2008, New Energy Congress member, Congress:Member:Tai Robinson wrote:


Problems with BoomGas? How suprising! Does no one listen to the dangers of collecting H2 and O2 together? You simply must keep H2 seperate from O2!!! Whatever you want to call it, HHO, hydroxy, browns gas, rhodes gas, remember, the first name was BOOM GAS! from Germany.

Stick to PURE hydrogen, that is what you want anyway. Trying to make enough onboard a vehicle, while it is operating is futile. You will never get the proper amount over the entire operating range of the engine. You can get little improvements, but if you really want to save money on your transportation fuel expenses, burn methane instead of gasoline! How many times must people try to blow themselves up with BOOM GAS??? Boom Gas is not a safer fuel. CNG is paving the higway back to hydrogen.

Don't Paint All H-Assist Systems with Same Brush

On July 24, 2008, New Energy Congress member, Congress:Member:Ken Rasmussen wrote:

Since I see you are now running PES as a gossip rag, have you looked at Ozzie Freeman or one of his affiliates cyber-squatted the domain and is blatantly misrepresenting itself as being the same Genepax that got something genuine going in Japan last month. But since you get precious ad revenue from him and none from HAFC, I guess you have no economic reason to report on his fraud.

For the record, Richard Coyle called me on 7/4/2008 and whined and sniveled in my ear for 4 hours. I called him back the next day with an intended short response to some of his accusations and he bellyached for another 2 hours. The only things of substance I remembered Richard telling me were:

1) Eric Krieg contacted Richard FIRST trying to find dirt on Dennis Lee, so Richard's contempt for Dutchman has been colored by Krieg

2) Richard had an obvious and serious personality conflict with Mike Holler, probably affecting his ability to learn anything from him

I have not had any relationship with Mike Holler. I just know I personally flunked every class I ever attended on any topic when a personality conflict colored my judgment of the teacher. I suspect the same here, maybe for good reason, I don't know.

I have never said the HAFC is the best hydrogen boost system out there, but it is no worse than any other system requiring a caustic electrolyte. The problems Richard attaches to the HAFC apply to all the others as well. An imbalance of caustic will mess up any system, not just the HAFC. Mis-wired installations will damage any car via any other system, not just the HAFC. A poor design is not a "scam", it is merely a poor design. Every installer has to follow instructions. His arrogance to "try something different" or "implement different theories" does not invalidate the design.

Go to the NEC bio section and read Eric Krieg's only reason for life... to flush his toilet every day on Dennis Lee and all of Dennis's friends. Is that really why your started NEC? I see somebody removed his focused attack on Dennis that was there for a long time.

The $100 restocking fee is exclusive to Jeff Otto's UCSA dealership. Kurt Annaheim at Befreetech does not charge that. And it is certainly not a "scam policy" initiated by Dennis Lee. In fact there is such a shortage of HAFC units to meet demand, anyone is a fool to waste time on a refund when they could very likely sell a used unit on e-bay for more than they paid for it.


I do not like blaming the victims of a crime, but seriously: anyone with a high school education or higher should know that these scams cannot work. A basic education in chemistry and physics, which most people in "first world countries" should be getting, is more than enough to know these devices are fraudulent and they do not work. Fortunately you can register with the FTC to get a tiny portion of your money back from the perpetrator, but that will be many years in the future after the FTC finishes its prosecution.

Seriously: what could you victims of this scam have been thinking? --JustDavid 16:25, 12 March 2009 (PDT)

See also

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Directory:Fuel Efficiency Hydrogen Injection


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