Lasted edited by Andrew Munsey, updated on June 15, 2016 at 2:02 am.
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• Seminar July 30
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Preface comment offered by NEC founder, Congress:Member:Sterling D. Allan on April 23, 2006.
Congress:Member:Robert Indech, PhD PE, and member of the
There was an error working with the wiki: Code operation, some construction considerations, potential dangers, and a physics explanation of the process.
He doesn't seem to take into consideration that in the Bill Williams paradigm, which had significant input from Peter Stevens, there are two steps in enabling an internal combustion engine running on the Joe Cell, with the fuel line disconnected.
Nevertheless, I think you will find, as I did, that it is refreshing to get a highly academic explanation of the possible process taking place.
His explanation here pertains to step one in which the cell and system is "charged."
It does not explain how the system operates when the positive lead is disconnected from the Joe Cell. For once that is done, it is no longer a matter of electrolysis at all. Rather, from what I understand, the "charged system" is acting as a "gate" through which Orgone energy flows, and somehow the Orgone is providing the motive force for engine operation.
That will be an explanation that will keep physicists busy for a couple hundred years.
It's exciting to be in on the ground floor of history in the making.
Robert, I would invite you to wrap your head around some of the physics models regarding Orgone. James DeMeo's handbook would be a good place to start. He sacrificed his seat in academia in order to go forward with his support of Orgone as a viable and feasible science. He speaks the language of academia, yet his proposal was too far removed from the physics mainstream to be considered as plausible, and was painted instead as heresy.
In a forum comment, Adrian Sykes said: "The best stuff on orgone is by Wilhelm Reich." (Apr 18, 2006) There seem to be a good number of people who agree, based on other comments given. [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoesCell2/message/566
Here are a couple of links to the work of James DeMeo.
http://www.orgonelab.org/ - James DeMeo's website
The Orgone Accumulator Handbook - 1999 book by James DeMeo teaches hot how to concentrate and work with orgone (life) energy using simple, readily available materials. Includes construction plans, experimental use, and protection regimens against toxic energy. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoesCell2/message/517
April 23, 2006
RE: Joe's Cell
While I applaud the efforts of the NEC group to validate the
experimental results of the Joe's Cell, I would predict a mixed report. I
expect a minor improvement in the output power of the gasoline engine for
the reasons described below.
With all psychical explanations aside, the Joe's cell is a sophisticated
electrolysis apparatus. Basic physics notes that one need only enough
electrical potential to break the hydrogen-oxygen bond of the water molecule
to create elemental gasses. This potential is about 1.7 volts. With water at
a non-neutral pH, there is either an abundance of positive ions or negative
ions in the solution, both allowing electrical conduction to occur. Thus,
absolutely clean single metal electrodes and deionized neutral (pH=7) water
will not work. It is as simple as adding salt to a steam vaporizer to cause
it to bubble and hiss.
As a 12 volt source is applied to the system, each concentric stainless
steel cylinder will assume a midway electrical potential between 0
(reference set level) to 12, and as long as the number of concentric
cylinders does not exceed the ratio 12/1.7 (about 7), the system will have
sufficient potential between each cylinder for electrolysis to occur.
With normal methods of metal and rubber fabrication, one cannot obtain
absolute purity. Further, stainless steel by its nature has certain
chemicals added to the iron such as chromium to give it its stainless
character. The "green scum" created at the beginning of the experiment is
simply the addition of the metal and rubber surface contaminants to the
oxygen and hydrogen gas bubbles so generated. Further, imperfections in the
crystal structure of the stainless steel itself would lead to point/line
dislocations and voids, and which would encourage the iron content of the
steel itself to by placed in ionic form in the electrolysis reaction, and
which would naturally float to the top of the bubbling brew. You can easily
create green scum in a conventional laboratory electrolysis cell with a pure
Remember that ordinary tap water is composed of hydrogen in both its
single proton form (hydrogen) and in its proton-neutron form (deuterium).
Thus, one would expect the gases so generated by the Joe electrolysis cell
to be hydrogen, deuterium, and oxygen, as well as contaminated byproducts
from reaction of the ions of iron and other elements on the metal/rubber
surface with the gases in the air. Placing the output of the Joe's cell in a
blind connection to the carburetor of an IC engine would take into account
the known tendency of hydrogen and deuterium ions (i.e. proton and
proton/neutron) particularly to diffuse through the thin metal barrier and
enter the intake airstream of the IC engine. Closing the system of the Joe's
cell to the atmosphere will allow large pressures to build up driving these
ions through the metal barrier. Be extremely careful that there is an
overpressure vent on your Joe's cell or you will have a gas pressure
explosion. Don't forget that at atmospheric pressure, the equivalent volume
of equal masses of a gas and a liquid is in the ratio of about 1000 to 1,
thus no perceptible change in the volume of the water will be observed over
a short time experiment. Pressure builds rapidly in an electrolysis closed
system. It is essential that the Joe's cell be constructed of heavy metal to
withstand the pressure. Elemental oxygen will also diffuse through the metal
barrier, although at a substantially slower rate the rate of all species
diffusion is governed by Fick's law and depends upon the diffusivity
constant of the metal barrier (which is species dependent). This elemental
gas ion delivery system could be optimized for ion transmission by carefully
designing the thickness and composition of the barrier between the
generating area and the air intake flow stream in the carburetor throat.
Addition of such ions into the carburetor flow stream will cause the
gasoline microdroplets to atomize further, until they fully enter the
complete vapor phase. Thus, this ion addition to the air flow stream will
eliminate the incomplete combustion that occurs when only the hydrocarbon
shell of the gasoline microdroplet reacts with the air intake oxygen in the
piston cylinder, allowing complete reaction to occur, with final engine
chemical byproducts of carbon dioxide and water. It is well known that
inputting only the hydrocarbon vapor from a gasoline tank and combining it
with oxygen in a piston cylinder with produce the highest mass to energy
ratio of the available chemical energy of the gasoline, with the lowest
emissions. The overriding problem is that this mode of operation of IC
engines is not compatible with rapidly changing fuel intake rates thus, one
gains far better gasoline efficiency when using a constant rate gasoline
engine recharge of batteries in a hybrid engine scheme than when uses a
conventional IC gasoline engine alone.
In conclusion, there should be some results if the system is
constructed correctly. However, as obvious from the explanation above, by
intelligent engineering design, one can optimize the generation rate and
physical variables of the hydrogen/deuterium/oxygen ions with the IC engine
intake air stream and gasoline atomization to gain the best overall fuel
consumption. It would be a better way to do business.
Sincerely, Congress:Member:Robert Indech, PhD PE
Dr. James DeMeo gave the following response on April 23, 2006.
Dear Mr. Allan and Dr. Indech,
Thank you for sharing this email communication with me. I've been
studying Dr. Reich's work experimentally and theoretically since
1970, and did the first work on this question in an American
university in the 1970s (univ. of Kansas) since the "ban and burn"
orders against his writings. I was able to carry forward with open
investigations on this subject for about ten years in my academic
posts before the organized "skeptics" began their campaign of
villification and public attack. See this 1989 article for some
A heresy, indeed! And funny considering how other-worldly and
lacking in empirical foundations has much of modern physics theory
become since his time. In any case, Reich coined the term "orgone"
to describe a natural phenomenon which appears to co-join the older
concepts of "vital force" and "cosmological ether". I am convinced
of its reality because the original experiments Reich outlined for
proof yield up results either very close to or identical to his
original claims. For an overview of experimental investigations
along these lines, I invite any honest skeptic to review the
experimental papers, for one example, as given in the most recent
issue of our journal, "Heretic's Notebook: Emotions, Protocells,
Ether-Drift and Cosmic Life Energy, with New Support for Wilhelm
This book gives actual experimental protocols and far more details
than my "Orgone Accumulator Handbook" which is a bare-bones
introduction for the educated layperson, and mostly on how to
construct the orgone blankets and accumulators which are used for
health-therapeutic purposes. One very good tightly controlled
experiment reported in "Heretics Notebook", which has 30-odd papers
by 18 different professionals, is my own study on "Seed-Sprouting
Inside the Orgone Accumulator" which yielded up an approximate 40-50%
increase in growth of the orgone-charged group over the controls. As
a basic foundation, there also are double-blind and controlled
studies on the basic bio-physiological effects of the orgone
accumulator on people as well, undertaken at the University of
Marburg and University of Vienna, and these are cited in my books,
but also in a special list of academic theses and dissertations on
the subject of Reich's work which appears in the online "Bibliography
It is a complex subject, related in my view to the same issues now
being grappled with by mainstream science on the
"dark-matter/dark-energy" question, or between the advocates of
Einstein's relativity theory and the growing numbers of physicists
who are reverting back to something close to the older ether-drift
theories -- I've written extensively on that subject as well, in
papers also published in "Heretics Notebook" (web link above), and
As to the Joe Cell, I've heard about this for years, but never
investigated it personally, so I cannot comment with any direct
knowledge. Of course, I cannot endorse it for the sole reason I have
not yet seen a convincing demonstration, but remain open-minded and
supportive of all efforts towards that goal. I really hope it works,
as the world needs more such technological innovation towards freedom
from petroleum resources. But I wish to emphasize, even if the Joe
Cell is ultimately unworkable or unpractical, for whatever reasons,
it would not be any kind of defeat of Reich's larger findings on the
discovery of the orgone energy, which remains an independent
discovery already well-supported from a number of directions. The
academic professional who is skeptical of my statement should simply
recall the history of science, the mistreatment and suppression of
figures like Galileo, Pasteur, Robert Goddard and even the Wright
Brothers during their early years. With Reich, the books were
actually burned by the orthodox medical zealots working with those
who would later on form the organized "skeptic" movement. So one
must go out of one's usual way, to search out the publications and
experimental verification reports for Reich's orgone energy, and not
take the usual position that because it has not appeared in the pages
of Science or Nature, that there must not be anything to it.
Personally speaking, I will happily convert my own vehicle to a Joe
Cell, and be happy to purchase the conversion kit from others who
might make a small business of this, and lend my full support to it,
once it is sufficiently demonstrated. While others might disagree, I
do not think we are yet at that point. So to all the experimenters
out there, I send my most enthusiastic encouragements, but also
remind everyone that the bar is raised pretty high for demonstrations
of any kind of free-energy device. Only practical demonstrations of
the "Wright-Brothers" variety will do -- and we know that even they
had a hard time going in the first years.
Best wishes to all,
PS. I note that simple aspirin did not have an adequate explanation
for its biochemistry until many decades after it was invented, and
put into widespread use.
James DeMeo, Ph.D.
Orgone Biophysical Research Lab
Natural Energy Works
PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA
telephone/fax (541) 552-0118
Posted to JoesCell2 list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoesCell2/message/638
From: "Jan Wicherink"
Date: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:34 am
Subject: Re: Robert Indech gives Joe Cell function explanation from academic perspective
Dear Mr. Sterling Allan,
I read Robert Indech's explanation of how the Joe Cell might operate
with great interest.
Recently I started to look for alternative explanations that might
explain the Joe Cell even better. Quit honestly I have my doubts
about the hydrogen theory since I do not believe that the car runs on
hydrogen at all! There's probably a completely different working
force behind the Joe Cell. I postulate that the piston of the engine
is being moved by a trust that is created by an imploding ether
vortex, an effect that is closely related to the Biefeld-Brown effect
(see also Jean Louis Naudin's experiments with his ether vortex
propelled flying sourcer and his lifer experiments
But that's only phase two of a possible explaining as to how the
engine runs on the Orgone energy. Let's start with an alternative
view of what Orgone energy may be and how it could be channeled by
the Joe Cell:
I've read some of Kosal Ouch's postings on this forum and his claims
about the sacred geometry and torsion fields involved in the way the
Joe Cell works sounds very familiar to me!
I've come across the work of Daniel Winter who's implosion physics is
able to quit clearly explain what Orgone, Chi, zero point energy
might be and he also gives a plausible explanation as to how water is
able to resonate with this energy, becoming a super conductor
channeling the `free energy' from the vacuum.
In order to understand Winter's theories we must first understand his
theoretical model of atom. His theory states that the atom is an
arrangement of ether vortexes in Platonic Solid symmetries whereby
each imploding vortex corresponds with what classical physics calls
an electron. These Platonic Solids can be arranged one inside the
other forming fractals in donut shaped arrangements of these
vortexes. Count the number of faces of the Platonic Solids and you
have the number of electrons in the p, d and f sub shells. Count the
number of Platonic Solids in the atom and you have found the number
of sub shells.
An imploding vortex in his model of the atom is a series of imploding
electromagnetic waves with Golden Mean or Phi ratio. Because the
wavelengths maintain a Golden Mean ratio, they can implode NON-
DESTRUCTIVELY. The implosion creates ever smaller wavelengths until
the waves collapse into a zero still point where the energy gets
compressed to infinity just like what happens in the eye of a
tornado! Russian science has discovered this as well and calls it a
In Winter's implosion physics the atom is just a energy matrix that
fits into an even bigger matrix, the Earth grid
(http://ascension2000.com/convergence/9918.html), the Platonic Solids
energy forms that are present in the Earth's electromagnetic energy
field (icosa-dodeca), and even they lock into larger wavelengths
those of the zodiac (dodeca), the galaxy and the universe. Recent
scientific discoveries indicate that the center of our galaxy is
torus shaped and it has also been suggested that the shape of the
universe is dodeca.
This knowledge is not new at all, it's the secret behind sacred
geometry, which is just a remnant of an ancient science that teaches
us HOW vibrations can form all of the Platonic Solids as standing
wave interference patterns as in Hans Dr Jenny's science called
cymatics (http://www.cymaticsource.com/). This is basically what an
atom is a standing wave pattern in the fabric of space, the ether,
taking on Platonic Solid symmetry interference patterns.
Now back to the water. In a quit recent new theory, Professor Martin
Chaplin of London South Bank University, shows that water is able to
arrange itself by means of hydrogen bonding into super icosahedral
structures of 1820 water molecules:
This structuring of water molecules in Platonic Structures
(Icosahedrons and dodecahedron) is ANOTHER LAYER of SELF ORGANISATION
within the matrix of this universe, from the atomic level, to the
molecular level. What happens is that water through this internal
self-similarity with the internal structure of the atom in fractal
form, will start to act like a super conductor to this imploding
Orgone energy! To put it in other words, ANOTHER LAYER in the
imploding fractal, which is Orgone energy is added!
I therefore believe that Kosal Ouch's remark about a pyramid
(octahedron) put above the Joe Cell, will indeed increase the Orgone
flow of energy. The pyramid an octahedron will act as yet another
LAYER in the fractal and will enhance the implosion. Russian
scientist Alexander Golod has years of experience with this pyramid
power and the torsion fields that are being created by it.
The secret of the Joe Cell, I believe is that it mimics nature, the
channeling of Orgone energy by our own body cells. It's is a
mechanism that nature has perfected over millions of years! The
initial voltage applied to the Joe cell, may not only start a
hydrolysis process, but also trigger the formation of more structured
water, i.e. the formation of MORE icosahedral water clusters! Our own
body cells are actually little Joe Cells with a low electrical
potential and are channeling the same Orgone energy by internally
structuring the water molecules. Scientists have discovered that the
water inside a cell is structured differently from the water outside
So what happens inside the Joe Cell is probably what happens is
happening in our own body cells and the Orgone energy, the Chi or
Life Force of the universe is attracted.
Please have a look at Daniel Winter's page on Orgone energy and his
As a starter on implosion physics you could also read chapter 6 of my
on-line e-book `Souls of Distortion Awakening':
Or download it in PDF form:
the glaxay is like a huge torsion generator -- Jaiyson (Apr 24, 2006 9:46 am)
Here is another example of an academic struggling for an explanation of a technology not found in mainstream science books. One thing comes through loud and clear when dealing with the Joe Cell. Throw the science books out the window.
Robert Indech, for all his impressive credentials, completely ignores what has been stated many times. This is NOT an electrolytic process.
What I believe is much closer to the truth, is in one of the references given by your own colleague, Congress:Member:Leslie R. Pastor, also a member of your New Energy Congress and a well respected correspondent to a number of alternative energy sites... -- John Carter (Apr 23, 2006)http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoesCell2/message/595
R. Indech's Reply:
: John is correct. I am an academic with 35 years prototyping experince and degrees all over the map. I noticed that all of the devices that New Energy Congress considers important are working devices, based on sound (and innovative) science.
: If we throw the science books out the window, we might as well try to operate on faith alone. However, it is quite difficult to develop operating devices based on faith or any of its ghostly manifestations.
: Science is not the end-all and be-all, but it is a good foundation on which to build. I wait expectantly for any of the NE Congress Tech group to rigorously prove the Joe Cell works. If so, [...] stock in the major oil companies may not be worth much in a world which doesn't need any to run automobiles. -- R. Indech (Apr. 24, 2006)
Electrolytic : of or produced by electrolysis.
The moment we apply an electric potential to two or more electrodes submerged in or in contact with a liquid and gas results, we are involved in electrolysis, an electrolytic process. Even if the short duration of electrolysis is just to condition the water, electrolysis is
electrolysis. -- tomboceaser (Apr 23, 2006) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoesCell2/message/612
Even if 2 people agree in the way to think about this it's never
going to be good enough. Everybody will have their own opinion based on
what they know and how they think. What to do! Just shut up and
experiment is all I can say, as you are trying to point out. Now the
acadmic scientists are only "one" of the crowd. It's even more
confusing because of the wish we all have to make it ourselves and
undrestand it whoever we are and the supposed conciousness element in
orgone. This whole thing is very joyous and making me laugh alot. But I
must say I respect Viktor Shauberger the most.Because he loved and
respected nature. And sometimes I think the Joe cell is Nature's last
laugh. -- long_boat_roz (Apr 23, 2006) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoesCell2/message/618