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Talk:Directory:Tom Ogle's Vapor Fuel System

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Discussion page for Directory:Tom Ogle's Vapor Fuel System

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Directory:Fuel Efficiency > Directory:Tom Ogle's Vapor Fuel System - A young inventor who died at age 26 in 1981, demonstrated an ultra high mileage system in 1977, later patented, that used the engine vacuum to draw fuel vapors from a vapor tank, obviating the need for a conventional carburetor and fuel pump.

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In 1978 my younger brother and I designed a very similar system to Mr. Ogle's.We were totally oblivious of his research and development. In fact it was only a month ago while researching the subject again that his name became known to me. We actually achieved greater results than Mr. Ogle probably because we mounted our unit under the hood closer to the source of vacuum and we used exhaust heat instead of radiator heat. We never sought out investors, we never made any money, we never tried to patent the device and we never sought publicity, so there would be no obvious reason for us to have a hidden fuel supply. The one thing we did discover about the system is that the fumes are so volatile that they can be ignited in a car that for the most part was so far out of tune, that it would not run on its original equipment.

The reason for the volatility of the vapor mixture can be found in this story. I worked in a wood working shop in the early eighties and every one knows that there is only so much energy that can be extracted from wood in a wood burning stove, but in this case a small spark from the planer was drawn into the sawdust extractor(which by the way was almost completely empty) The ensuing explosion was so violent that it shook the building and stretched the reinforced container (that held the sawdust) by three inches in diameter on the top third of a twenty foot silo.

The explanation about Ogle's device is one that compares two very different technologies carburetion or fuel injectors which spew raw gas into a cylinder and vacuum assisted combustion which only supplies the engine with the fuel it demands while mixing it nearly perfectly with the right amount of air. One way drives the piston down by burning the gas causing an expansion and the other by using an explosion the resulting combustion provides an exhaust so clean that we were able to heat our shop with it for hours on end with no appreciable effects to our health.

Vacuum assisted combustion basically refines the fuel(much like refining oil) into layers and for this telling I will refer to those layers as "light ends" and "heavy ends". In Mr. Ogle's experiment he more than likely(based on my own experience)burned off the part of the fuel that evaporates first but has the least amount of energy per gallon for the sake of argument let's just say he got 60mpg for the first gallon. As he started to burn the second gallon he is now trying to evaporate the middle of the mix. For the sake of argument let's just say he got 140mpg this would account for the misconception that he got 100mpg. He incorrectly averaged out his result. Now for the kicker was he able to burn the final gallon? Those are the heavy ends and yield the most energy lets say 225mpg this would more closely approximate our results. But alas this makes the whole story even more unbelievable.

If Mr. Ogle took his system apart at this point he would see that the remaining fuel resembled diesel more than gasoline. It took a lot of trying to master how to burn those heavy ends but we did do it. You see the problem with the system is that the condition of the fuel is constantly changing or degrading. we were never able to design a valve that would take in to account the changing status of the gasoline. We were also not able to get an engineer (such as the one who wrote the physics lesson in the directory entitled The Truth About The System)to come up with one either. Other faults of the system are that the mixture is so lean it tends to cause the engine to "knock" and as well it scorches the valves. We found that injecting small amounts of water into the throtle body solved both problems and led to only small amounts of water droplets out of the exhaust.

The economy improves exponentially with a smaller engine. In one experiment we attempted to see how long it would take to burn off one pint of gasoline in a 3 1/2 h.p. lawnmower engine. we gave up after running it for more than three straight days. While it's true the engine was not under load, it's still significant. Try it on your lawnmower at home and you'll see it will run for about 45 minutes.

We kept a ledger of our exploits and experiments that were signed by witnesses but we were never able to get anyone to show more than a passing interest.We also (like Mr. Ogle) used a vehicle that was large and added weight to the vehicle to dissuade the naysayers from the obvious arguments.(anyone can design a sowing basket on wheels and get good gas mileage hence the "Smart" car).We even took the extra step to make our unit with clear hoses and viewing ports to better understand what was happening within the system.

After reading the misconception about Ogle's invention I had to take the time to respond and would offer to you at this time that I am willing to meet(or at the very least talk on the phone) with anyone to debate the merits of my argument and my own vast experience and I understand that it is easy to discredit that in which you don't have a thorough understanding.

Leslie Clendening

cel # 519-829-8199

lclendening@rogers.com

Leslie Clendening is absolutely right.

I've done a lot of experimenting with gasoline and ways to vaporize it since 1974.

The Article author is wrong. There is an astonishing amount of available 'internal' energy in most fossil fuel combustion, that is not utilized in fuel systems that use liquid fuel. To gain access to this potential energy, the fuel must be in a vapor state BEFORE the spark plug fires.

For maximum mileage gains, it helps to 'crack' the fuel into methane (TCC) before entering it into the engine this solves the problem of the 'diesel-like' residue because it is all converted to methane. Exhaust heat and catalysts work well for TCC, so there is little or no input of energy to prepare the fuel for efficient combustion.

An example of an interim solution is my HyCO 2A technology, which uses evaporation (cold vaporization) to increase the amount of fuel that is vapor when the spark plug fires. The HyCO 2A is a simple and inexpensive way to increase any gasoline powered vehicle's mileage by 50% to 100%.

In fact, my RV generator (a 4 KW Onan) is running 100% on vapors created through a HyCO 2A canister. It runs WITHOUT a throttle plate because the engine doesn't need a vacuum to vaporize the fuel (the fuel is already vapor when entering the engine). I gain almost 30% usable power because the engine doesn't need to work to maintain a vacuum and it runs FAR longer on a gallon of fuel.

My TCC experiments (which achieved over 200 mpg in a 1973 GMC pickup) are described in my book "Extreme Mileage, 101". My website has some free information to help people understand how such gains are possible and how we've been lied to by the Vested Interest for over 100 years. Some starting places are: http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/node/462 and http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/node/443 and http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/node/643

George Wiseman

http://www.eagle-research.com/contact

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