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Talk:Directory:Noblefuse Electromagnetic Fusion

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Discussion page for Directory:Noblefuse Electromagnetic Fusion

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Directory:Fusion > Directory:Noblefuse Electromagnetic Fusion - Solomon Azar has built a proof of concept demonstration device involving a Tesla coil and underwater plasma that allegedly gives off gamma radiation, a sign of nuclear combination. He also Archive:Plasma Messiah Correspondence that he is the Messiah. (PESWiki Mar. 23, 2008)

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Schopenhauer

All truth passes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed

Second, it is violently opposed and

Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

"When you're one step ahead

of the crowd you're a genius.

When you're two steps ahead,

you're a crackpot."

-- Rabbi Shlomo Riskin, (Feb. 199

Inventor has a basic command of the physics involved

''On February 28, 2007, New Energy Congress member, Congress:Member:Robert Indech, PhD PE wrote:

Dear Sterling:

Having read the lengthy discussion of theory and methodology of hydrogen fusion creation, it is apparent that the inventor has a basic command of the physics involved, but with some stretches. The basic technique is to utilize a tunable high energy Telsa coil to create an ionic acceleration in a plasma derived pathway from a sample of ordinary (pure) water laced with heavy water. It is not clear to me whether the experiment, as described in the disclosure, has been performed, as the text is lacking in specific details of results achieved. If fusion did occur, there should be high energy particle emission, and possibly high energy neutrons, which would require specific particle detectors to measure. Such measurements were not in the disclosure. Further, a plasma fusion reaction occurring suddenly, in any appreciable concentration of deuterium, would have the effect of a small thermonuclear bomb. This result would be quite noticable.

I do not think that larger scale experimentation is required just more careful experimentation with the equipment he has. Utilizing 100% heavy water, easily obtainable from Sigma Chemical among others, would be a good start. Employing thermal monitors, a controlled chamber for the reaction, and radiation detectors may yield some examable data, which could proceed to a controlled form of fusion. After all, what he is really describing is a form of hot fusion whereupon the heating is caused by the emission of the high frequency high voltage Tesla coil output.

At present, there is insufficient information to assign a Congress:Top 100 Technologies -- RD rating. The inventor is welcome to give us more details after all, he has already submitted for patent his theory and device. If the method works as advertised, it would be given a T1 rating.

Gamma ray emissions is significant

On February 29, 2008, New Energy Congress member, Congress:Member:Robert Indech, PhD PE wrote:

Dear Sterling:

Viewing the video, the author needs to be congratulated for putting his ideas into practice. His technique is to discharge a high voltage (tunable) high frequency Tesla coil into a water bath, which may have some components of heavy water. In the video and comments he mentions putting 6000 watts into the water. Further, he notes that the Tesla coil itself gives off Gamma bursts, so that those measured could not be ascribed directly to the fusion process.

I did see no mention of measurement of high energy neutrons (admittedly which is a very difficult thing to measure). The requirement of 750 KV is mentioned often. Is that the potential needed for acceleration of the hydrogen to produce fusion?

The system could certainly be downsized to experiment with. What frequency is being used to resonate in the water? There are other, more stable power systems rather than Tesla coils, which produce a very clean high voltage, high frequency waveform, but with very little amperage. More significantly, such sources would not have Gamma ray emission, so that any detected rays would necessarily come from the fusion process itself.

Suggestions for Mechanism Improvement

On March 25, 2008, New Energy Congress member, Congress:Member:Robert Indech, PhD PE wrote:

Dear Sterling:

In the Azar Fusion model, a Tesla coil discharging between two electrodes in water creates a plasma state following dissociation of the water to hydrogen and oxygen. The intense electric field causes an acceleration of the hydrogen ions toward the negative electrode, at a velocity that may reach relativistic speeds. As any accelerating charged body also emits a magnetic field, so too does the moving proton. The field so generated is akin to that of the magnetic field around a current carrying wire: the magnetic vector is strictly angular, whose magnitude decreases as the inverse square of the distance between the test point and the moving proton. If there is another moving proton nearby with the same vector direction as the first moving proton, then this magnetic field will give rise to a force on the second proton that is directed radially inward to the first proton. A bunching up of the parallel protons, or "squeeze" will occur. These equations and effects are fully described in the inventors "scientific" disclosure.

The inventor makes the leap that the subsequent radial velocity caused by this magnetic bunching effect is sufficient to overcome the natural Coulombic repulsion between these two protons, so much so that fusion will occur. For proton fusion, a velocity equivalent to 200-300 million degrees Kelvin is necessary IN THE RADIAL DIRECTION BETWEEN THE FUSION PROTONS. For deuterium fusion, only 20-30 million degrees Kelvin equivalent velocity. The Telsa coil pulse provides a longitudenal acceleration of the protons it is the magnetic pinch effect that provides the radial acceleration. Thus, simply increasing the intensity of the Tesla coil may achieve a change in longitudenal velocity from .95 to .98 of the speed of light, but the corresponding radial net velocity would not be anywhere near that amount.

It is possible, however, for fusion to occur in isolated regions of the wave pathway between the two electrodes, as an accelerated proton in split water may impact a water molecule just before it has been split in this case the enormous velocity imparted to the proton may be sufficient to overcome the Coulombic barrier. However, this is not a magnetic pinch effect, but it may give rise to some low level evidence of fusion occurring. In this case, one should do an energy balance to see if the net process is economically profitable (i.e. muon based fusion is possible, but not profitable).

The major problem with the Farnsworth Fusor is instability. The Fusor, when operated at fusion levels, with give rise to jets of ions which escape the spherical confining field. Thus, the Fusor fusion is possible, but not profitable. Perhaps this inventor can combine the two technologies, and utilize the magnetic pinch effect to bring stability to the fusion process, thus making the device possible and profitable. That is, utilize a deuterium water source, use a tunable Tesla coil to energize two electrodes, both electrodes set at the output potential of the coil, and surround the electrodes with a grounded open type electrical wire sphere. The AC oscillation induced by the Telsa coil may be sufficient to create stability so that ion jets do not form. Just a suggestion.

Promising Concept

On March 25, 2008, Daniel Bowers wrote:

Sterling,

I will admit that the calculations behind the physics are over my head but I understand magnetic fields, fields of energy, and how it is necessary to smash particles together to capture nuclear energy.

A plasmoid is a stabilized ball of plasma which is contained within its own magnetic field. Chukanov discovered this and along with his work in cold fusion has grasped the concept.

The Bussard Polywell device with concentric magnetic fields is a way to manipulate the flow of the plasma to get the necessary reaction. It was adapted from the Farnsworth–Hirsch Fusor.

After much experience reviewing plasma systems and every type of fusion reactor known to the wiki world and after reviewing the noble fuse technology I have come to a conclusion.

The concepts behind the Azar Fusion device are sound. Sandia National Labs achieved temperatures in excess of 2 billion degrees kelvin which is hot enough to achieve aneutronic fusion of Boron 11. For Mr. Azar to achieve the temperatures and the necessary velocity in order for fusion to occure with hydrogen or deuterium is very much conceivable. 100 to 300 million degrees kelvin in this device seems possible.

Last month you asked me to review a magnetohydrodynamic ocean generator which used the water as the containment field for a solid state magnet generator. Mr. Azar has applied the same principle to his technology utilizing the water to contain the magnetic field. Within this magnetic field electricity is passing at a high speed and the ionized particles get caught in the plasma pinch.

The concept for using a toroid to give increased efficiency is one that is applied in most fusion reactors to date.

The potential for scaleability, the simplicity and reproducability of the Noble Fusion technology gives this system merit when it comes to the development of viable free energy devices.

There are novel concepts with water based fusion reactors when it comes to containment and replenishing fuel. I believe that there is the potential for atmospheric pressure devices and much development that may stem from this technology. My first suggestion would be to employ the concept of the Farnsworth Hirsch Fusor in a heavy water based reaction vessel.

If the technology can be validated it will open the doors to the development of optimized devices. I have many recommendations for alternate configurations in mind but I wil save those for another day.

See also

Directory:Noblefuse Electromagnetic Fusion

Archive:Plasma Messiah Correspondence

Directory:Fusion

Directory:Plasma

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Directory:J

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Thank you to my new friend- I like this persons insight into my ideology-Lighting Fusion where Einstein and Tesla come together. To all the teslaphiles: "not the dielectric of free air- but the dielectric of water")-and for einstein- the Relative strength of the magnetic pinch is a function of the Relative motion of charged particles controlled by power source- "its all relative"-thus Q is controllable-time will tell- hopefully before global war for energy.

Thanks Romey from Solomon

Also see on the you tube -Lightning fusion-noble fusion,by Solomon Sami Azar-this is the first time done in the world and hope+praythat some university repeat his very brave experiment of recreating Marriage{fusion}of hot+cold plasma,where he use1 million volt discharge through pure water+doped with heavy water-it is sort of plasmotron,where the hazard nuclear rods from the water type reactor are remove out and substitute with anode+cathode plates of semiconductor,suspended in the water{pure}of the reactor basin and let the discharge of the high voltage electrical current{750,000-1,000,000}volt from Nicola Tesla coil pass trough it-forming huge corona of plasma discharge,consuming the"vacuum ethereal"energy of the water,splitting the water molecule of two hydrogen+one oxygen atoms and regrouping the electrons and protons to form as byproducts:stable hydrogen,deuterium or tritium atoms and helium atoms{two protons,two neutrons,}the free hydrogen atom combines now,as four hydrogen atoms{first valence}give one stable helium atom of {second valence}consisting of two electrons+two positrons and four neutrons,which bring the magnetic property of helium,for difference of the hydrogen{one proton,one electron of pure electricity.4H=He{four}+2positrons+big energy!Since the air is not empty vacuum,but,sea of electrons and positrons{as Nobel laureate Paul Dirac proofed,and the water is compacted air under high pressure ,due to condensation of the extremely hot steam,after passing of high voltage electric current through the pure water left to the water pressure, become liquid,due to the gravitation,release from the neutrons of free and bound oxygen atoms of the heavy water{in normal reactor}.When two hydrogen nuclei collide{fuse ] together,it is release lot of energy,and the relativistic exited hydrogen plasma then is capable of "pinch effect",responsible further for recombination process,i.e.the new formed helium nuclei consisting of four protons+four neutrons is splitting by fission,again into hydrogen nuclei{only protons+relativistic electrons}.the energy density release by hydrogen fusion is mush bigger,than the energy density as result of nuclear fission of helium,uranium,plutonium,By the hydrogen fusion the two protons of the 2 fusing nuclei must be very close,so that their two electric fields are mutual repulsive,and overcome by the nuclear force field,as a result releasing enormous energy For example the fusion reaction of hydrogen isotopes : one deuterium nuclei {one proton+one neutron}with one tritium nuclei {one proton+two neutrons}gives two protons+two neurones bound as one helium nuclei+3.5MeV energy and one neutron+14.12 MeV energy,so in total the hydrogen fusion deliver17.62MeV energy by aplying the formula of A.Einstein-E=m {square of the speed of light}cthe energy obtain from nuclear reactions is mush bigger,than this which is release from chemical reaction{as was the fake cold fusion of Ponds-Fleishman,which was two palladium rodes in heavy water,but was explosive easy and "Cold fusion, too hot to handle",as the book of Frank Closef rom Oxford,UK.The ionisation energy,for example from free relativistic electron fusing with the H nuclei gives only about 14elecrtonvolts{eV}-almost one million times less energy,than the hydrogen fusion of the nukleosyntesis ,which take place on our Sun.also ont he Sun ,happens the reverse fission of the helium releasing neutrons+hydrogen nuclei's+energy.The fusion of light element as H and his isotopes,gives energy{advantage},but the fission of heavy elements ,as uranium,plutonium,requires energy'If fusion reaction is unsustainable,uncontrolled chain,can lead to thermonuclear explosion{the hydrogen bomb},But in today,s TOKAMAK toroidal device with strong magnets around,make the plasmaof the corona discharge PLTE{partial,local,thermal equilibrium}or stable CORONA model,when,when the plasma diagnostics can be done with Abel integration in the cross section of the plasma column.even that the hydrogen fusion of H,D,T,and the reverse fission or splitting of the produced Helium{tree-four }back to hydrogen atom,nuclei+releasing the neutron and 17.6MeV{millionsof electron volts}it is very difficult to produce+control,and is similar process of our forming of the dual twist of the DNA and reverse the RNA and is the basic of the nukleosyntesis.But if one time controlled,can become the chirpiest,purest environmentally energy source of the future,specially,when our Sun finish the hydrogen ,converted partly or fully in neutron matter ,i.e.the super hot Sun,because is finishing the sidereal year of 26500 years,rotating in Cosmic orbit,and our Sun after the explosion to giant red cold star,will shrink to white dwarf,neutron cold star and finally black hole if ultra dense black hole,where time go to singularity+stop,the matter is maximum,the energy minimum,so that the light become tired around the event horizon of the shrunk dead Sun,now dark matter,and once traped ,cannot escape{looks like real hell for our light being}But for Now we need that Energy,free gift from the Creators for humanity,even because the main fuel is the hydrogen isotope-Deuterium and it is extracted from water{sweet+no impurities for better conducting of the electrical current}Most impressive fact is ,that eight gallons of heavy water replace2500gallons gasoline+the deadly fumes,increasing the pollution,

WITH CHRISTIANS LIKE THIS WHO NEEDS ENEMIES

energycrisis13

energycrisis13 (33 minutes ago)

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MrUsername1987 (16 hours ago)

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Do you feel the same? negativity towards Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists that you do with Atheists?

also-i have no negativity as i speak truth and it hurts the scum that ignore it--all will make sense when? the survivors who always knew america was built by christ in majority but beaten down by pagan scum and atheists- when ww3 happens very soon and all people see their loved on3es dead and sick from radiation- all SCUM will realize how they pushed it to far- all is according to plan written in revelations- its here

energycrisis13

energycrisis13 (45 minutes ago)

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many confused scumbag gays marry to cover up their evil ways as dawkins- a disgruntled gay man whgick fights back at god and makes alot of money doing it thru books along bill maher who? figured out a long time ago controversy makes interests and money- THUS- in capitalism america every business person by majority has pushed the envelope to make more money- lying and cheating doesnt matter as god is a dont care over money- THUS- america now collapses with other countries supporting to no avail- america is filled with scum atheists and pagans and VERY WEAK CHRISTIANS because they have been born into cheapo food shlter and plenty jobs/ thus spoiled scum- soon the skin melts off everyone and my words of dicipline will make sense even to your idiot selfish abusive bullying mentality called the ATHEISTS

wh0rg

wh0rg (2 hours ago)

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Richard? Dawkins is married to Lalla Ward (i.e. not gay.) Also: seek help.

tepperway

tepperway (6 hours ago)

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we know your god is the devil,,, look at wat u say 2 people...... plus you know your family is dope heads,,,, see its trash like you that make your god looks bad,,,, see my god? is gud,,,,

energycrisis13

energycrisis13 (16 hours ago)

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every single atheists scum i have met on the net hide behind screen names as they are scared of their WEAK FAITH- only the homosexual sweet talking monkeys like dawkins who are angry at the church speak clearly enough for the rats that follow in order to have free sex? drugs and immorality- now western world filled with shit and collapse imminent- let us thank god together to show all mankind this media technology unveils the scum that always existed within society that never have submitted during pagan days of europe till now- SCUM

energycrisis13

energycrisis13 (17 hours ago)

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the covenant of abraham is jews Christians and Muslims- the story of Issac and Ismael is a family story mankind must put together- thus muslims and christians and jews are the same to achieve unity- the other branches of ANY religion is pagan used in ancient times and must all submit to the family of gods will- atheism is universal anywhere on planet and its purpose it to gather the majority of humans being followers to god to unite- atheists serve a purpose to provoke? and it makes ww3 with eventual unity- thank you for your service as jews in ww2

MrUsername1987

MrUsername1987 (17 hours ago)

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Do? you feel the same negativity towards Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists that you do with Atheists?

energycrisis13

energycrisis13 (1 day ago)

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junk007stock (1 day ago)

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Thank god for Atheists and thank god for Homosexuals.?

everything? meant to be- atheists to unite all followers of god very soon on planet- homosexual to expose the weakness of mankind and how disgusting we are to bully children towards abuse of homosexuality and rape-it is a world of shit and slaughter continues until the sexual monkey scumbag submits to discipline via golden rule and holy books to make YOUR own life and own family and own friends and the worlds family a better place to live- the slaughter continues until the monkey submits in unison akin to 100th monkey syndrome- time will tell

junk007stock

junk007stock (2 days ago)

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Thank god for Atheists and thank god? for Homosexuals.

energycrisis13

energycrisis13 (3 days ago)

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same reply from every scumbag atheists- go seek professional help when in fact i am far stronger than your entire group put together- all atheists which by majority are homosexual? in order to attack the church must repent- just because you feel harm from some members of the church does not mean you step on the rest of the world- let others find a solution for you like all retarded people- handicaps-etc-

artyfarty2

artyfarty2 (3 days ago)

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You need professional help. Please get help as you appear to be a? danger ot yourself and others.

sasuschrist

sasuschrist (1 week ago)

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faithless abusive? bullies- the extermination of atheists is very soon now

DievansTheory

DievansTheory (1 week ago)

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I love your stupidity. Please explain every war that was waged by either 1. Religions? 2. Atheists. Compare size and compare severity.

Before you even TRY to respond to me, do try to make a logical argument. Or are all religious nutcases illiterate.

energycrisis13

energycrisis13 (2 weeks ago)

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let us watch the bullies in life- ATHEISTS - watch how they belittle attack others- the consequences of atheism have come- prepare for ww3- theists and atheists? pitted together- just what the doctor ordered

sykeo123

sykeo123 (2 weeks ago)

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I should start posting his home address all over the? internet lol

thisguysajerk

thisguysajerk (4 weeks ago)

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nut-job.?

Katalyzt

Katalyzt (1 month ago)

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energycrisis13(noblefuse/sasuschrist) you are definitely delusional, and I think a little confused as well... You might want? to seek professional help. :O/

Katalyzt

sasuschrist

sasuschrist (1 month ago)

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since april 2007 one net with solution to energy- none have FAITH- thus economy now dead and soon? complete collapse

sasuschrist (11 hours ago) Remove | Spam Marked as spam born and raised in western lands that have ended paganism in europe african and the americas in blood sweat and tears only to resurface by a selfish spoiled scumbag generation too ugly and stupid not to submit to god with his most precious son Jesus- how ugly are atheists and pagans to still hold on to ancient ways as christ conquered so many only to be disgusted now- how many are agitated in? the spirit world yet it is meant to be for final slaughter campaign on earth- to kill the terrorists without hesitation will be replaced with atheist and pagan cults within the new rome itself- it comes to set example for rest of world looking for answers to make a better world- when the dust settles the answer will be clear- first the global collapse as man must fight one another in order to love one another

sasuschrist (14 hours ago) Remove | Spam Marked as spam you atheists are too stupid to? understand my words but then again you curse the light of god named jesus- even the dog lovers killed michael vicks trained savages and it will be same with all atheists scum like you very soon-

Pheobus3309 (14 hours ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam Wrong. World War? II was revenge for Hitler against the Jews that judged him. Which Judaism is surprise surprise... A fucking form of Christianity. Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because they were blood thirsty. Not because they were Pagan. Wrong again. Humanity does need discipline. Especially people like you who cannot and will not perceive things for what they really are without butchering a religion. Read Philippians 2:12. Read Matthew 7:1-2. Read Matthew 10:14. Bible said these things for YOU to follow. Why not heed that call? Do you have selective reading or are you too mentally incapacitated to understand what it says? You're the snake in the grass and no different than the Pharases. So fuck you. I'll expose you later in the week.

Pheobus3309 (2 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam Not all gays are criminals. There are more straight serial? rapist men than there is gay criminals. Stop stereotyping and stop being a coward.

08u235086349h08gh3 (2 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam 1. You sir a FUCKING GOD.

2. I COMPLETELY agree with your terrorists > atheists video.

3. You have the BEST CHANNEL ON YOUTUBE.

That's all, I wish? you peace through life.

sasuschrist (4 days ago) Remove | Spam Marked as spam Atheists are nothing more than spoiled white people of dog eat dog animal behaivor but meant to be in order to unite all followers of god- atheists are the new scapegoat of provocation akin to jews of ww2- the world unites upon the ashes of the faithless scum- thank you for being the bold brave atheist scum- prepare for the new gestapo tracking your identity upon the net when? war bell rings

boonw (4 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam is this supposed to be a joke channel? I unno,? when it comes to religious retards, you cant really distinguish between people who are serious, and people who are making fun of people who are serious.

plasmamessiah (5 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam the dark ages was the taming of pagan Europe- you are too ugly and stupid to see the gift of? jesus in your history as still scum live in you and slaughter comes for you very soon

Care4alot (5 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam Christianaty has been tried it was called the dark ages

and you? promise more of it.....

plasmamessiah (5 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam 100 yrs of media documentation to show ills of atheism- even the mafia say what is wrong with crime- soon global slaughter begins as ww2 not enough- the earth will learn in another global war as it takes time to teach the monkey on earth they have a spirit within them that not only is true after death- but before life- but that? karma eastern stuff is too much for the atheist brain to comprehend- did you know a human being can only master one major science at one time- and when they do they always mutter we dont know anything yet in the big picture- atheists are nothing more than spoiled white people with jobs by vast majority(homosexual as this is perfect venue to attack church)- thoe days come to an end in order to hear the lords prayer when you are starving

TheShwaNerd (5 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam So you are saying to me basically that you have no argument to present me with? So instead you? threaten me with violence and even death? How very moral of you sir. I find you morally repugnant, but then again, you worship a god that is morally repugnant as well.

sasuschrist (5 days ago) Remove | Spam Marked as spam if YOU see hate it is because you are hate- your eyes are filled with hate- i am the scientists of all things and merely present facts- the soviet atheist are dead now with remnants of scum in europe and freedom america of scumbag ways of deceit towards god- all atheists will be slaughtered soon as all theists HATE the bullyism by self declared ATHEISTS- you? will understand soon when global economy collapses and INSTINCTIVE behavior comes over man to exterminate the snake that bites- YOU - ATHEISTS

Care4alot (5 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam You can't be a Christian, you understand nothing about humanity, a true Christian doesn't hate

Your words show your ignorance and Hate (emotion is not a argument)

Your words are incoherent which shows what a amateur you are .....

Hope next? time you first learn something before you claim to know anything,

start with the meaning of the word Atheist (you are 1 too you know)

ScientologySucksAss (6 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam You Are Completely insane. Christianity is the prime cause of Atheism . Christianity makes no Sense so? the logical use that as a Stepping stone.

TAXtheAtheist (6 days ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam Thank you for your message. I really like the Channel. I've been going to Sam Harris channel's and pretty much saying similar messages (though, not a poignet) as you about? faith. Sam Harris wrote a book 'End of Faith'. He is more or less a version of Bernie Madoff, running a 'spiritual ponzi scheme'.

Godspeed

energycrisis13 (1 week ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam As Many As I Love, I Rebuke And Chasten

I wondered if you knew what Jesus said about brothers-

"And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For WHOSOEVER SHALL DO THE WILL OF GOD, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother" -Mark 3:33-35.

Or what He said about love? "If ye love me, keep my commandments" -John 14:15. "Hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil" -Ecclesiastes 12:13-14. "For this is the love of God, that? we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous" -1 John 5:3.

I am the messiah- the last chapter of the book has come- revelation precedes the new age

jediman672 (1 week ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam I? don't believe you are a Christian-- not with this despicable behavior youre displaying. Christians are supposed to show love. Could you please read Matthew Ch. 7?

sasuschrist (1 week ago) Remove | Spam Marked as spam faithless abusive bullies?

artyfarty2 (1 week ago) Remove | Block User | Spam Marked as spam You are a vile disgusting little worm, and one of the many reasons why I could never stoop? so low as to be a Christian.

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