Talk:Directory:Magnetic Power Inc

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Discussion page for Directory:Magnetic Power Inc

Image:MPI test bench device 95x95.jpg

Mark Goldes' company, Chava Energy, claims to be close enough to soon have some demo devices, which extract energy from the vacuum of space. A 1 kW module remains an initial commercial goal.



NEC Evaluation

At one point, the New Energy Congress placed MPI in the Congress:Top 100 Technologies -- RD, but it hasn't been there since around early 2008.

On June 1 and May 1, 2006, the NEC tally for MPI's module technology came to 4.2, placing it closer to "Top 20" than "Top 50".

Beware of the Perpetual 'Year'

On Dec. 20, 2008, New Energy Congress founder, Congress:Founder:Sterling D. Allan wrote:

In the six years I've been following Mark Goldes, he's posted around a dozen press releases, approximately two per year on average, and each typically states that his company is just one year away from producing a demonstration unit. Some of those statements can been seen below in the There was an error working with the wiki: Code[1] section. My associate who has known Goldes for 15 years, reports that Goldes has been saying that for fifteen years -- always 'one year' away. Golde's '1 year' is going for a record of the longest year ever.


"In the realm of ideas everything depends on enthusiasm... in the real world all rests on perseverance." Goethe

Entrepreneurs are by nature optimists. Those that ultimately succeed, find without exception that everything takes much longer than one had hoped, or anticipated. They also make numerous mistakes. Anyone who does anything useful that is difficult tends to find that goes with the territory. As President Kennedy once said about choosing to go to the moon: We do it “not because it is easy, but because it is hard.”

Our work has the potential to dramatically assist the utility and automotive industries. The technology we are developing can provide the potential to stimulate the world economy and kick-start renewed growth.

See, for example,

Utilities and auto manufacturing firms are well equipped to evaluate our claims. Two large utilities are among major domestic companies that have signed NonDisclosure Agreements.

There are those who attack us on this website who do not believe ZPE or ambient heat can be converted into useful power. Such individuals can perhaps be called Perpetual Pessimists. Independent laboratory tests coupled with Demonstration Devices and toys are the cure for their condition. All three are prime objectives of our program.

Ken Rauen

Congress:Member:Kenneth M. Rauen, Science Advisor for PES Network Inc., and New Energy Congress founding member, issued the following statement on Dec. 5, 2005.

: "I am close to Mark Goldes and MPI. Several years ago, an Ultraconductor sample was loaned to me on consignment. Even though I could not verify superconductivity, it was a dead short at room temperature, and by its visual construction, it should have been an insulator. He has disclosed to me proprietary information regarding magnetic motors all I can say is that there is experimental evidence for them, the best I have ever seen for a magnetic motor." (Ref.)

Image:Ken Rauen at Snowbird2006 head 95x95.jpg

Five of the Most Promising Clean Energy Technologies - See what clean energy technology expert, Congress:Member:Kenneth M. Rauen, recommended to a financial consultant in Milano, Italy, looking for suggestions of where to direct some major funding. (PESN Oct. 16, 2006)

'''Chava Energy is acquiring assets of Magnetic Power Inc. and its subsidiary Room Temperature Superconductors Inc. For current information see


Another Cycle of Rinse and Repeat as MPI Drops GENIE to

--Penny Gruber 21:08, 30 October 2008 (PDT)

Mark Goldes posting on EnergyBlogs brings us another cycle of rinse and repeat. As with the free energy transformers, after months of stating MPI has multiple working OU devices they would submit to test in days, Mark Goldes now says the GENIE devices have been "moved back in priority.":

From the blog comments, quoting Mark Goldes:

: "Both the transformer system and what we were calling Genie (that name has been dropped as it has been used by another firm) are still in the program, but have proven more difficult to bring to market than a newer breakthrough, which appears capable of rapid commercialization. ..."

: "The complexity of the device has caused it to be moved back in priority, not dropped. Simpler designs that can be commercialized more rapidly are now on the front burner."

: Mark Goldes: I suggest interested parties read the post on Energy Blogs.

: --Penny Gruber 04:47, 15 November 2008 (PST) Mark Goldes has made reading the post rather difficult when as is becoming increasingly common with him, he deleted his own blog entry and discussion in question. The link is now dead. ETA so also is the entire MPI web site.

: Mark Goldes: The link was superseded by a later article on the same subject on the website amd unfortunately that deleted the discussion. The MPI website host server is temporarily down and should be back up soon.

: --Penny Gruber 09:35, 15 November 2008 (PST) You deleted the blog entry and discussion. No one else did. Like the blog entries May 28, and May 29 where you made your phony claims of working ambient heat to electricity claims, you deleted your 10/28 blog and discussion. This is similar to your efforts here to delete your nonsense claims of being impersonated on the Steorn forum after it was apparent the Steorn mods could track your posts there to you. No worries Mark, archive is cheap.

: MPI hosts with and has for more than a year. is up and active. reports that the MPI web site is under construction. This is typical when the user has yet to upload their web site, or has pulled it down.

:: Mark Goldes: MPI has always replaced superseded articles and the comments unfortunately do not switch to the update. In my opinion an unbiased reader would be underwhelmed by your remarks. I regret the fact the thread does not transfer.

:: Our website was down due to problems with the host server and has been back up since about 6pm PST last evening.

:: --Penny Gruber 21:49, 16 November 2008 (PST) "Superseded" is Mark Goldes' Speak for "We delete what embarrasses us." It was the comments section where you admitted dropping the never over unity GENIE devices, just as you dropped the never over unity transformers before. Those comments and not your plea for investment in your decade moribund polymer project that was pertinent to this thread. You suggest intereseted parties read materials you have taken pains to deliberately delete. You certainly have so far failed to post notice on your own web site of the sea change represented by your decision to bin the never over unity GENIE devices you so frequently likened to invention of the transistor.

:: Your "superseded article" 11/12 is the same mindless pitch for investment on the premise of constructing a utility network using superconducting wires you don't have as the one you deleted from 10/28. Aside from adding one quote from Al Gore and substituting the term "electronet" for "ultragrid" the two posts are nearly word for word identical. You can spam EnergyBlogs with your repetitious pleas for investment in your scam company all you like. EnergyBlogs has no requirement that you delete one post before creating another, even if they are exact copies. You and you alone chose to delete the entry along with its comments.

:: Mark Goldes: Our latest post on can be read at: Anyone interested in the latest version of the post on an UltraGrid see:

:: --Penny Gruber 10:05, 17 November 2008 (PST) Both pieces are regurgitation of the same mindless tripe and pandering for cash as those that preceded them, replete with your usual moaning about how GW is about to end the world unless suckers give you cash. It's funny and sad that you keep shamelessly hyping the GENIE devices even now that you've indefinitely binned them. But perhaps it is no more ludicrous than your latest tack of promoting old Maxwell demon fantasies.

:: Do you really think that if we don't deploy free energy machines within eight years, GW is going to disrupt life as we know it? If you do, you must feel awfully guilty about the way you keep binning all those planet saving break throughs you keep claiming to have discovered but never manage to even get so far as independent test. Just think of all the fine eager young minds in industry and academia who could be saving the planet, but don't know there is a way because you keep failing to validate. Given your 25 year record of 100% failure in free energy pursuit obviously you're a poor risk to ever succeed. If you actually care about the planet maybe you better put what you have in the public domain so better minds can save us from the horrible GW demise you constantly harp about.

: --Penny Gruber 09:12, 8 November 2008 (PST) Just click on the link above. That's what it's there for. (As of 11/14 Mark Goldes pulled the blog so the link is no longer any good.)

Readers may feel a sense of deja-vu. From late 2004 through early 2007 Mark Goldes touted how MPI had free energy transformer technology that was many times OU in their labs, and how in "weeks" they would submit that technology to independent test, and were designing 1kW generators which would be available the following year. After more than two years of that nonsense, Mark Goldes announced in early 2007 that the one free energy transformer prototype he says was ever over unity had broken.

: Mark Goldes: The prototype with a core that cracked was not a transformer in the conventional sense. It was a prototype of the pending patent application on our website:

: --Penny Gruber 08:49, 8 November 2008 (PST) But of course the device in the patent application is a transformer. You've often said so yourself, just like you do in your very next comment after this where you call them "overunity transformers". The device in the patent application is just a transformer with very poor coupling. From 2004 to 2007 you kept claiming you had plans to modify utility transformers turning them into free energy generators.

Rather than fix or replace the device they insist would change if not outright save the world, MPI was instead changing course to pursue the so-called GENIE, later POWER GENIE, now unlabelled device. And why the switch? Supposedly because developing the new GENIE device would be so simple and easy to make that MPI could develop it with less pain and in less time than it would take them to repair or reproduce even just one of the free lunch transformers they say they already made work. Forget that MPI had long promoted the simplicity of the transformers. Forget that MPI had long claimed their intentions to simply modify 3kW utility transformers so as to turn them into 1kW free energy generators. No, the transformers suddenly became incredibly complicated and difficult to build and MPI needed to change course.

: Mark Goldes: Modifying conventional three phase utility type transformers into over unity transformers and the device we called GENIE and POWERGENIE are both technologies that are expected to proceed toward the market in the future. As with all new technology there is a learning curve. Hot fusion has shown promise for decades and nobody with any sense is surprised that there are technical difficulties that are often unanticipated. Decades have gone by and hundreds of billions of dollars expended on that technology and it still appears to be some years from the market.

: --Penny Gruber 08:49, 8 November 2008 (PST) Given MPI's failure to ever deliver anything they have pitched as "expected", this means both the transformer and the GENIE device will never see the light of day. The reason is clear: Neither produces the free energy that MPI has long claimed for each.

: Mark Goldes: MPI does not use the term "free energy" as we consider it inaccurate. Solar energy is expensive and we hope it will soon be less so, but it is not free. Neither are any other systems that tap previously uncommercialized sources of energy such as those we are developing.

: --Penny Gruber 18:55, 8 November 2008 (PST) You have long advertised your claimed devices with such language as: "Never require fuel of any kind", "a battery that never runs down or requires a recharge", "generates electricity, consumes no fuel", "operate continuously, without fuel", etc... Your reference to "uncommercialized sources of energy" that you cannot evidence are just a dodge you use in efforts to steer the gullible from recognizing your perpetuum mobile claims.

As MPI embarked down the fabulous GENIE route they noted the GENIE devices weren't over unity. But MPI engineering was supposed to be able to overcome that. For nearly two years Mark Goldes leveraged Lee Felsenstein's good name to promote the GENIE comparing it to the discovery of the transistor. He claimed OU a year ago, and repeatedly put forth dates to submit self-running devices to independent test from last April until now.

But now MPI has corked the GENIE back in its bottle. Without ever submitting the miracle device to test, Mark Goldes declares that like the once simple transformer before it, the GENIE device turns out to be "more difficult to bring to market". The once simple device will not be handing us the free lunch he says we need to save the planet after all. The great news is: MPI has "a newer breakthrough, which appears capable of rapid commercialization". You know, just like the transformers that were on a "Fast Track to Market", and the GENIE devices that were on the road to "rapid commercialization". And yes, with a little luck MPI promises to have 1kW free energy generators "at the end of next year". Just as he said in: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007.

: Mark Goldes: ''Some of the devices we called GENIE, until another firm used that name for a very different product, have been Over Unity, but they are more complex than a more recent development project. Have we been overly optimistic, of course! That is the nature of any entrepreneurial enterprise!


: --Penny Gruber 08:49, 8 November 2008 (PST) "Overly optimistic" is Goldes' Speak for: "We lie through our teeth." A prominent example is MPI's claims dating back years that they have been designing 1kW generators based on a succession of now abandoned non-overunity technologies. One cannot design generators around a technology that doesn't generate.

: Mark Goldes: ''Several distinguished scientists believe human life on planet earth is at hazard unless there is a rapid reduction in the use of fossil fuels. It will become clear as our work moves into the market that it is indeed real, however difficult for arrogant individuals to believe. Once our technology is proven real and in the market, individuals such as Penny Gruber will need to confront the fact that it is in fact they who have possibly slowed the progress of technologies, such as ours, on which many human lives may depend.


: --Penny Gruber 18:55, 8 November 2008 (PST) I see more pathetic appeals to for planetary salvation and ad hominem attacks on those who don't buy your nonsense unevidenced claims. It is you and you alone who keep changing from one claimed "breakthrough technology" to another rather than deliver any evidence that what you have ever claimed works. You claim you have had a working free energy transformer since 2004. After many delays to independent test you claim the only working prototype broke. Rather than build a replacement you embarked down a two year path on entirely different devices. After two years on the Genie horse and repeated claims of imminent validation you again rinse and repeat changing to yet another "breakthrough".

: Penny's Law of Perpetual Motion Relativity:

:: ''The time remaining before a perpetual motion / free energy device is validated increases as the inverse square of the time to validation represented by the PMM promoter.

: Corollary One:

:: 'Validation of any perpetual motion / free energy devices can only occur on the other side of an event horizon that can never be crossed.'

::: Mark Goldes: MPI has never claimed to be developing perpetual motion devices. Interested folks might enjoy the article: Perpetual Commotion on our website.

::: --Penny Gruber 20:58, 9 November 2008 (PST) MPI has a long history of fraudulant claims to free energy devices going back at least to 2003. Sample quotes:

::: "... multi-kilowatt 24/7 electric power generators -- requiring no fuel and producing no pollution -- might be in production, under license, by the end of 2004." Mark Goldes 12/11/2003.

::: "These electric power generators will require no fuel and produce no pollution." Mark Goldes, American Antigravity 2004

::: "New science is opening the way to fuel-free power and proulsion..." Mark Goldes, American Antigravity 2005

::: "Magnetic Power Modules are being designed that operate continuously, without fuel ..." MPI Executive Summary 2005

::: "Magnetic Power Modules are being designed that operate continuously, without fuel ..." Mark Goldes as quoted, Sterling Allan "Magnetic Power Inc. seeks bridge funding for revolutionary energy solutions" PESN June 8, 2006

::: "At an appropirate time, MPI will acquire 3 kva transformers. With our technology, these devices will become generators" Mark Goldes, "Magnetic Power Modules: Fast Paths to Market" July 5, 2006

::: "GM could adopt a revolutionary fuel-free electric drive." Mark Goldes, Jan 20, 2007 Comment on "2007 Deteroit Auto Show: More chevrolet Volt Photos"

::: ''"Modules will be designed to electrically power cars with unlimited range, and with performance matching that of conventional, gasoline or diesel engines, having no need for any type of battery recharge. Mark Goldes "A Crystal Ball View of our Initial Product Development Program" MPI 5/24/2007.

::: "GENIE generators are being designed to operate continuously, without fuel ..." Mark Goldes, Magnetic Power Inc. "Time for a 'Triple Play'" 1/02/2008.

::: "Magnetic Power Modules are being designed that operate continuously, without fuel ..." MPI Executive Summary 4/21/2008.

::: Many more examples exist. Devices that produce energy without fuel are otherwise known as perpetual motion machines. See Bob Park Physics, 10/13/2006:

:::: "About five times a year somebody comes out with a new device to make free energy. Most involve magnetic fields. ...I tire of debunking these things, but this week a reporter called about Magnetic Power, Inc. He said deep-pocket investors, are putting money in it. They always do. MPI says its "Quantum Dynamos" tap the "Virtual Photon Flux, a limitless source of energy." Inventors used to call that "perpetual motion," but the Patent office won't patent perpetual motion machines. That was only a policy of the Patent office before 1985. It became case law after Joe Newman sued in federal court to force the Patent Office to issue a patent for his "infinite source of energy" (Quigg v. Newman) and lost."

:: Mark Goldes: The Patent Office has issued patents for Zero Point Energy Conversion for some years. The most recent May 28th, 2008. My comments can be read in the article Perpetual Commotion:

:: --Penny Gruber 16:04, 10 November 2008 (PST) Those unworkable patents or not, no one including you can show energy harvest from the zero point field.

:: Sadly, despite prior policy and now law that bars it, the PTO periodically grants patents for perpetual motion. As stated by Bob Park the current dodge by free energy claimants around the perpetual motion ban is to claim a woo-woo source of energy. The PTO is also known to have granted patents for many other completely unworkable devices, despite the utility bar.

:: Patents for unworkable devices such as your self-admitted unworkable free energy transformer application from 2006 lack utility and are unenforceable. They have no value in industry. They can however provide value to unscrupulous charlatans who use them to try and legitimize their claims to investors.

: --Penny Gruber 08:49, 8 November 2008 (PST) None of MPI's devices have ever been overunity. If you had ever believed that you had an OU device, you would have long ago submitted such a device to independent test. EarthTech is eager to provide the test services. Instead, you have for years fabricated one lame excuse after another and never submitted anything you claim is OU to independent test.

And what of all those working OU devices Mark Goldes insisted MPI had last April? You might recall that Mark Goldes' reason for not submitting those to test was that his GENIE devices were going to pass self-running tests in the summer. That excuse may be gone, but he's no doubt got a real corker of a new one.

: Mark Goldes: MPI has had OU devices since December of 2004. But, self-running devices have taken longer to prototype than we had anticipated. They are moving forward at an accelerated pace at this time.

: --Penny Gruber 08:49, 8 November 2008 (PST) This is just more of your nonsense. If MPI can determine OU without self-running then so can a well-equipped and qualified laboratory like EarthTech. You do not submit because you know your claims to OU are lies. "Accelerated pace" is Goldes' Speak for "We're making more promises to investors that we will never keep. What we keep is investor's money."

In the meantime MPI has quietly removed all references on their web-site to the "Self-Powered Systems" Mark Goldes began promoting last spring. Those were the devices that supposedly converted ambient heat into electricity. Those devices had supposedly already been used to power an electric car for thousands of miles. Like the car, references to those claims are now nowhere to be found.

: Mark Goldes: “Self-Powered Systems” are still in the works, but the publicity was premature. Conversion of ambient heat into electricity is increasingly promising.

: --Penny Gruber 08:49, 8 November 2008 (PST) "Publicity was premature" is Goldes' Speak for "Those lies were too easily exposed." "Promising" is Goldes' Speak for "Isn't ever going to happen." You claimed a car had already run thousands of miles powered by ambient heat. Such capability is trivial to test. Where may that car be inspected?

: Mark Goldes: The claim was made by the inventor who also stated that when he ran out of money, he removed the electric system from the Lamborghini replicar, reinstalled the gasoline engine and sold it. We now have three ambient heat to electric technologies in development, including his. We expect one or more of these systems will be independently tested at EarthTech International, with luck before this year is over. However, I have been overly optimistic before and it may take longer - but then again, I may also be correct this time. :)

: --Penny Gruber 18:55, 8 November 2008 (PST) My that's such a sad and outrageous story. Who do you expect to believe it? He had proof of Fire 2.0 in his hands but he had to sell it to buy milk for the kids. I've got great news! One doesn't need a car to test the engine for your claims. You could simply put the engine on a dynamometer and test it. Where can one inspect the engine?

: Is your story that he also had to sell the "100% self-charging" golf cart you claimed went 120 miles? And what became of the 204HP electric outboard motor you said ran for over a week at full throttle without depleting its batteries?

: There is no reason to believe you will deviate from your perfect track record of never delivering on your grandiose free energy claims.

Fleece investors, rinse, and repeat. It's a fraudster's best friend.

: Mark Goldes: As I have stated on several occasions, we expect anyone with scientific background to be skeptical of our claims until they are validated by independent laboratories, such as EarthTech International - and products can be purchased in the market. At that time, they will speak loudly for themselves.

: --Penny Gruber 08:49, 8 November 2008 (PST) Since MPI has never had any overunity devices, has none now, and will never have any: there will never be any independent validation, nor will their ever be working product in the market. Your history precedes you: Lead on gullible investors with false claims of working free energy machines, fail to test, fail to produce, abandon, then announce new free energy machines, rinse and repeat. You're just following the script honed by John Keely over a hundred years ago.

: Mark Goldes: MPI has had overunity devices since December, 2004 and continues to demonstrate them, under NonDisclosure Agreements, to qualified parties.

: --Penny Gruber 18:55, 8 November 2008 (PST) Fabulous! Then you have no excuse to keep them from validation test. When will you be submitting to EarthTech? Of course since none of your devices are actually overunity the answer is never.

Mark Goldes Claims Working Prototype Delivery to EarthTech International

--Penny Gruber 04:57, 11 Jul 2008 (EDT)

Posting on the Tesla Motors Founders blog6/25/2008 Mark Goldes stated that MPI would deliver at least one working prototype to ETI following completion of testing by Lee Felsenstein that week.

: Hector,

: EarthTech International will have at least one working prototypes for independent tests, following the completion of tests by Lee this week.

: But, we are not planning any public demonstrations.

: Comment by Mark Goldes June 25, 2008 @ 5:42 am

--Penny Gruber 23:09, 11 Jul 2008 (EDT)

As it would no doubt turn out, those claims were just more lies from Mark Goldes in the ongoing Magnetic Power free energy fraud.

Investors File SEC Complaints

On June 14, 2008, Todd Hathaway, an active duty Army Major who provided MPI via Mark Goldes a short-term bridge loan in 2006 in the amount of $55K that went into default that same year, a loan that was signed over to another non-accredited third party in 2007 with the option to convert the loan to MPI stock, wrote:

: As of June 14, 2008, complaints have been filed with the Securities and Exchange Commision (SEC) to investigate alleged fraudulent investment activities. Persons who have information related to this matter may forward information to the following:

: SEC Complaint Center, 100 F Street NE, Washington, D.C. 20549-0213. You can also send a fax to 202-772-9295. Please reference Magnetic Power, Inc., 301 N Main St # A, Sebastopol, CA 95472, in your correspondence.

- - - -

Anyone with information regarding this matter may also contact if you do not feel comfortable contacting a government entity, or you may submit an email to my attorney in DC (my brother in law who lives down the street from the SEC) directly at maccoby {at}"

- - - -

Rebuttal by Mark Goldes (June 14, 2008) : (Response A): MPI is a private firm. The SEC has no jurisdiction over private companies. Therefore, [the] statement that we are under investigation by the SEC is libel.

: --Penny Gruber 02:45, 17 Jun 2008 (EDT) Todd has not libeled either you or MPI. Just try and file a defamation complaint and see how fast you end up stuck with the bill under a 425.16 Motion to Strike. The SEC file number is HO1281623.

: (Response B): Although MPI is a private firm. I see that I was mistaken, the SEC does have jurisdiction if private firms have not complied with the requirements, as I believe we have, under exemptions. This complaint resulted from a long overdue loan. I do not believe there was any such violation. There has never been fraud on the part of our firm.

: --Penny Gruber 02:45, 17 Jun 2008 (EDT) The solicitation for sale or sale of securities to the public without an effective registration statement is against the law. Leave it to qualified securities attornies to determine whether your incessant pandering for investment on the internet qualifies as a public solicitation.''

: Mark Goldes: Our securities lawyer has advised MPI on such matters for years.

: --Penny Gruber 08:49, 23 Jun 2008 (EDT)That may become something he regrets. The SEC has prosecuted a number of attorneys for their participation in sales of unregistered securities, and security frauds.

On June 14, 2008, an MPI associate wrote, "I think that it is provable that Mark raised money from unsophisticated people, including some investors, and a lot of creditors via the use of convertible stock, with a total disregard for anything but his personal wants and needs. Let me know if there is anyway I can help, now that it’s started." ''

: Mark Goldes: MPI has never raised money primarily for my personal wants or needs.

: --Penny Gruber 04:43, 19 Jun 2008 (EDT) The "MPI associate" begs to differ. How much personal compensation have you drawn from: Aesop, MPI, ROOTS / RTS?

The same MPI associate previously stated that MPI defaulted on several hundred thousand dollars in loans in 2007 alone. This person also previously stated that he/she was unaware of any technology developed by MPI to be "over unity" as the term is commonly recognized by the scientific community, a statement made in 2007 when MPI/ROOTS had already received millions in funding, a total amount that is now approaching $10 million since MPI/ROOTS's inception, which affords MPI's willingness to sue skeptics like NEC member, Eric Kreig.

: ''Mark Goldes: MPI has had Over Unity technology since December of 2004. We have demonstrated such technology to several scientists and engineers under NDA.

: We have never threatened to sue Eric Krieg, who I believe tries his best and serves a useful function.

: --Penny Gruber 04:43, 19 Jun 2008 (EDT)Your fraudulant claims of OU are belied by your refusal to submit to qualified third party test. There is not one qualified scientist or engineer who has ever tested your claimed devices and corroborated your OU claims. In fact Lee Felsenstein's testimonial specifically disclaims OU.

Based on the information presented by MPI personnel, NEC member Eddie Sines and former NEC member Todd Hathaway also concluded in 2007 that MPI does not have "over unity" technology, as the term is commonly recognized by the scientific community. MPI's consistent claims of over unity devices have been ongoing for many years. The NEC wiki pages listing MPI and its claims continue to lend MPI credibility at the expense of investors, as the "Magnetic Power Inc. has created several Over Unity prototype devices." statement below proves.

: Mark Goldes: Eddie Sines has never visited an MPI lab and knows nothing of our technology. He is a competitor, with an invention that we have felt is unlikely to function without contributions beyond his own.

: --Penny Gruber 04:43, 19 Jun 2008 (EDT)That's just more obfuscation and misdirection typical of you. It is not necessary for one to visit your lab to determine you have been pitching bunk. When this likely goes to adjudication, no judge or jury will need to visit your lab.

The debate on what exactly MPI has available to demonstrate would end with a live demonstration on free of charge to MPI, with an unscreened call-in number posted on MPI's web site to answer any questions that outside parties would have about the devices claimed below during the live demonstration the call-in number would prove that it is MPI facilitating the demonstration and would show MPI's willingness (or lack thereof) to demonstrate what it has been claiming it has developed now for several years.

: Mark Goldes: MPI has every intention of submitting devices for independent test to laboratories of our own choosing under NDA. We have also been invited to submit units to a National Laboratory and intend to do that as well.

: --Penny Gruber 04:43, 19 Jun 2008 (EDT)That recurrent lie of yours is belied by your failure to do so week after week, year after year.

A hearty thanks to all who have already provided significant information - other options are also being considered through the appropriate legal channels to ensure that this scenario does not happen to other people. Of the dozen researchers/companies who were provided funding over the years, this is the only instance where such actions were warranted, and this was not the largest contribution to a researcher/company...

Latest Correspondence

April 23, 2008

Magnetic Power Inc. has created several Over Unity prototype devices.

"2009 The first quantum generators (tapping space energy) are developed. Available in portable and household units, from a few kilowatts upwards, they can produce electricity indefinitely. Central power stations close down: the age of pylons ends." A prediction made by the late Sir Arthur Clarke in 2001.

The first solid-state generator, reflected in the posted patent application on our website, exceeded unity by a very large margin. However, it was at an extremely low power level. The device has developed an internal short circuit, or possibly a crack in the core, that prevents it from continuing to function. Developing it commercially has proven to be a surprisingly difficult task. In the future, this invention will be the subject of a second, future, patent application that will reveal details necessary to produce it in a manner that can function Over Unity. That project is on a back burner, as in trying to simplify the construction, entirely new and different families of potentially practical generators have emerged.

An example is the work referred to in a Proof-of-Concept (but not Over Unity) device in Lee Felsenstein's article on our website. We currently refer to these very different generators as POWERGENIE™ (Power Generation of Electricity by Nondestructive Interference of Energy) devices. A patent is pending and is the first of several new applications that will be filed on variations of this new technology.

A POWERGENIE prototype has been OU. A high energy density prototype appears capable of eventually becoming one possible candidate for the replacement of batteries and fuel-burning engines. One goal is to turn cars, trucks and buses into power plants, capable of supplying perhaps 100 to 150 kW to the local utility, when parked over a suitably equipped parking place. This would allow future cars to become a source of income rather than an expense. Existing technology will allow the wireless transfer of up to 150 kW to the grid. It can also be used to allow cars to transmit 10 kW to a home, when parked over a suitable wireless connection plate, perhaps one square foot in size. Future cars, selling power to the local power company, may pay for themselves over a reasonable period of time.

Another prototype, of a different design, may provide a near-term, solid-state, self-runner. This presently appears to be one possible candidate for the 1 kW generator that has long been an MPI goal.

Four different devices in the Mechanical Division laboratory have been repeatedly OU. However, the output is not electrical and the margins have not been sufficient to self-run. Prototypes of other designs appear to be good candidates for a self-runner having moving parts. The first goal of the Mechanical Division is Demonstration Devices and toys, capable of being mass produced. A second goal is a stand-alone self-powered room heater.

EarthTech International will be the first lab invited (at long last) to independently evaluate a self-sustaining device. An individual at a National Laboratory has asked us to bring such a prototype there as well. We continue to allow qualified individuals, who have signed NonDisclosure Agreements, to visit the laboratories and observe the work. Visitors have included engineers and scientists. Six multi-billion dollar domestic firms have signed NDAs. They include major electric power utilities.

MPI's subsidiary, Room Temperature Superconductors Inc. (RTS) is once again beginning to move forward. In addition to three issued U.S. Patents covering our polymer Ultraconductors™,, a very large pending application with 195 Claims is in the process of being divided into ten separate applications. RTS will be reintegrated into MPI in the coming months, as there is no longer any reason for it to be a separate corporation.


Mark Goldes

Chairman & CEO

Magnetic Power Inc.

301A North Main Street

Sebastopol, CA 95473

707 829-9391 direct

707 829-1002 fax


On April 30, 2006, User:Brokengun wrote:



Mark Goldes Shifts the Bar Again and Again and Again

--Penny Gruber 07:29, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

It seems to only take a couple of days now for Mark Goldes to push out his milestones. He has now switched horses from the GENIE devices to claims of a Maxwell Demon, IE a device that redistributes ambient heat energy by creating rather than diminishing a temperature gradient. In other words, if you dropped one of these devices into the ocean, for perpetuity ice cubes would pop out one side, and steam the other. While promoting this device on

Energy Blog Posting

: edit: As of 06/16/2008 that blog was pulled. I have a PDF of it as it was published May 28, 2008.

: It just tickles the heck out of me that in a digital age, some people think they can easily cover their tracks with the delete key.

: edit: As of 10/30/2008 all references to the "Self-Powered Systems" the supposed devices running off ambient heat which had supposedly already done such things as powered an electric car for thousands of miles have disappeared from the MPI web site.

::Mark Goldes: The information is now contained in an updated Executive Summary on our site.

:: --Penny Gruber 08:54, 23 Jun 2008 (EDT)Which does nothing to explain why you pulled your announcement from energyblogs

: ''Mark Goldes: The updated Executive Summary with the identical information appears on energyblogs.

: --Penny Gruber 03:20, 4 Jul 2008 (EDT)That is another lie. The 5/29 "updated Executive Summary" blog is on at least its second incarnation. Content of each version varies substantially from the 5/28 blog you pulled.

: Of the significant content that remains is the false claim: "This system has proven the capability to recharge batteries from heat extracted from the air." It comes as no surprise that you have not produced any evidence much less proof of that fantastical claim. When was this supposed proof generated? Who generated it? Who validated it? What was the basis of it? Where is it now?

: ''Mark Goldes: All of the significant content remains in the updated Executive Summaries. Independent validation is expected by EarthTech International before this summer is over. As our former patent attorney is now with a national laboratory and has requested they receive a prototype, we will send one (or more) there in the same time frame.

: --Penny Gruber 18:05, 5 Jul 2008 (EDT)''I see that you just deleted the 5/29/2007 "Executive Summary Blog" from energyblogs as you did earlier with the 5/28 entry previously linked. Your attempts to cover your tracks through revision and deletion appear to be getting desperate. Given the ease of archive, they are also futile.

: You also seem to have a unique definition of the word "identical". Just as the Mark Goldes' dictionary redefines "soon" and "in a few weeks" as "never", your dictionary apparently redefines "identical" to be "something with some similar content". The content differences are substantial and glaring. I have pdfs of all three versions. None of your revisionist editing can hide your changes.

: You claim to have proven that you have a device that shatters the laws of thermodynamics on a huge macro scale, and yet can't seem to muster even the slightest shred of evidence in support of that proof. Just to make matters even more absurd, you also claim to be dealing with multibillion dollar companies. Any of those have the resources to evaluate your claimed proof. Any of those with proof in hand of Fire 2.0 would jump at the opportunity to exploit it with wide-open check books. Yet, you are still pandering on the internet for "modest sums". Ergo, none of those multibillion dollar companies believe you have the proof you claim. Ergo your ambient heat to electricity claims are just more of your lies. QED.

: ''Mark Goldes: MPI has never claimed to have a device that functions due to Maxwell's Demon. We are working with devices that efficiently convert ambient heat into electricity. Ken Rauen, who is well known to readers of this website, invented and patented a mechanical device which converts the heat in ambient air into electricity.

: --Penny Gruber 08:54, 23 Jun 2008 (EDT)Ken Rauen has no such working device. Ken has theorized and patented a "super Carnot cycle" engine that he believes can operate at greater than theoretical Carnot cycle efficiency.

: Mark Goldes: He cites on this site a paper by Dudley, which showed that this could be done solid-state by utilization of Maxwell's pressure demon. We have cited the Dudley paper as it concludes with the following Summary:

: "Quantum mechanics provides an easy way to implement a version of Maxwell's pressure demon that produces electricity directly. This violation of the second law of thermodynamics means that there are possibly ways to extract useful quantities of energy directly from the thermal energy of a gas at room temperature. This may at some future date lead to devices that can operate on the temperature of the environment directly. Such devices should no longer be dismissed out of hand as impossible simply because they violate the second law of thermodynamics."

: Just as there continue to be various attempts to explain why ceramic superconductors superconduct, there are likely to be competing explanations of how ambient heat can be efficiently tapped as a source of energy. Dudley simply illustrates that such claims cannot be dismissed as impossible.

: --Penny Gruber 08:10, 19 Jun 2008 (EDT)So you're just using someone else's speculation that a Maxwell Demon may someday work ( none ever has ) as a basis on which people should believe arbitrary woo-woo from you. It's a safe bet the: car, the golf cart, and that outboard motor are even more scarce than a very shy invisible flying pink unicorn.

: It is beyond absurd that you try to associate competing theories for actual real observed behaviors with the complete woo-woo you claim but fail to evidence.

: ''Mark Goldes: Those interested may enjoy the article by Dudley. It appeared in the magazine Infinite Energy a couple of years ago and is unrelated to the invention we are working with, except for the fact that it demonstrates that conversion of ambient heat to electricity is possible:

: ''Mark Goldes:

: --Penny Gruber 09:50, 20 Jun 2008 (EDT)Your claim of fact is a bald faced lie. Dudley only speculates. No one including Dudley has demonstrated conversion of ambient heat to electricity.

: Readers may get an even bigger enjoyment when they learn of Dudley's other exploits: Apparently faked science fair experiment claiming water heated in a microwave oven is harmful to plants, fanciful investigations into crop circles, and promotion of the recurrent "health" fad colloidal silver.

: Mark Goldes: 'To quote Dudley: Maxwell's Pressure Demon and the Second Law of Thermodynamics

: By John Marshall Dudley

: '''Summary

: 'Theory predicts that it should be possible to violate the second law of thermodynamics. An experiment was constructed to evaluate the theory, and it was found to produce power in the form of electricity from the kinetic energy of molecules of air at room temperature.'' The experimental power produced by the device over a temperature range of 20 - 55 C was within 5% of that which the theory predicted across the entire range.

: '''Other sources of the power, such as electrochemical were evaluated and eliminated as possibilities.

: ''Mark Goldes: Penny it seems you are the bold faced liar. In time, readers will find that to be true of almost all of your vast collection of arrogant utterances.

: --Penny Gruber 16:31, 1 Jul 2008 (EDT)''Dudley failed to show heat was removed from the air. He concluded according to his desires that his experiments violated the 2nd Law, passively creating a heat gradient from thermal equilibrium. However Dudley never even attempted the calorimetry needed to test that claim. He instead conducted experiments where he attempted to measure very small power levels and rule out some but not all of the sources for power perceived by his measurements. His conclusions are therefore not the result of careful experiments with proper controls, but mere speculation. The nominal term is "junk science".

: ''In the two years since Dudley has published his claims they have gone nowhere. This is just another case where once again, Mark Goldes attempts to latch onto the specious claims of another free energy claimant in order to try and legitimize his fraud.

: What makes this all the more comical is that Dudley was trying to demonstrate a Maxwell Demon violation of the Second Law at a picowatt level. That is something that is very difficult to establish because of the minute power levels. Mark Goldes on the other hand claims passive heat removal from ambient air in the hundreds of kilowatts, which is trivial to demonstrate. Yet Mark Goldes offers zero evidence in support of his wholly fantastical, fraudulant claims.

Mark Goldes claims that if only MPI could get funding, this device could be in production with "minimal delay", which he describes as "a matter of months." The clear implication is that despite all previous posturing, the claimed working magnetic power generators are now much further out in time than "a matter of months".

: Mark Goldes: Magnetic devices are coming along nicely. However, as I have mentioned elsewhere, while self-running prototypes are likely this summer, production may be slowed by the lack of large quantities of certain components that have had only very small markets in the past. Since these are ordinary problems of mass production, they will be readily solved. But, that will require a bit of time.

: --Penny Gruber 08:17, 19 Jun 2008 (EDT)One really has to marvel at how effortlessly you try to create anticipation of some immediate results on the one hand, while creating excuses with the other. You show nothing because you have nothing to show.

To date all proposed Maxwell Demons violate of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and none has ever been demonstrated to work. Despite this fact, Mark Goldes claims that these Maxwell Demons have already:

: Mark Goldes: As stated above, I have never claimed Maxwell demons have powered anything. However, the devices listed were powered by the efficient solid-state conversion of ambient temperature heat.

: --Penny Gruber 02:06, 25 Jun 2008 (EDT)That claim is complete woo-woo. The laws of thermodynamics require that in order to do work with heat a temperature gradient is required. You offer neither experimental evidence, nor a theoretical basis for your extraordinary claim.

Powered an RFID device for over a year.

Powered a golf cart for over 120 miles with no battery discharge.

Powered a 204 HP motor for over 150 hours with 20% battery discharge.

Powered an electric car for almost 5000 miles travel.

Such claims are easy to publically reproduce as well as test at qualified laboratories like ETI. It is a safe bet that like the GENIE devices, MPI will not submit any device to test, but will instead use this new initiative as an excuse for putting aside the GENIE devices, just as MPI used the GENIE devices as an excuse for putting aside the transformer devices.

: Mark Goldes: Such claims will in fact be tested at qualified laboratories in the near future.

: --Penny Gruber 02:06, 25 Jun 2008 (EDT)You have already elsewhere disclaimed any and all projections as promises. A reasonable reader is likely to conclude that since you have not executed in several years what you claimed you would do "in a few weeks" that your claim of "in the near future" is equally empty. Need anyone be reminded that it has now been six months since you claimed you would be prepared to test at Geoscience "within six months"?

: ''Mark Goldes: We have never stated we would test at Geoscience at any time. Like so many of your half-truths, we have in fact said we would submit to tests at EarthTech. And we will.

: --Penny Gruber 15:52, 1 Jul 2008 (EDT)Actually you stated it right here: Dec 26, 2007 Mark Goldes posting as Overtone stating MPI would be The six months are up. You did not submit.

: ''Mark Goldes: Interesting. That post is not mine. Someone else evidently posed as Overtone, which I do use as a web name on several websites including Steorn's Forum. As it happens we do not have any knowledge of, or contact with, Geoscience.

: --Penny Gruber 15:09, 2 Jul 2008 (EDT)Caught lying yet again you want people to believe that: someone hacked your password at Steorn, did one heck of a job impersonating you right between other posts of yours, and for over six months you never knew. You want people to think you never knew about a supposed imposter's posts even though you typically respond to invocation of your or MPI's name anywhere on the WWW within a week. Perhaps the good people at Steorn will compare originating IP addresses. How much would you like to bet that "impersonator" has the same IP address as you?

: ''Mark Goldes: As it happens, it was me. I simply was and am unfamiliar with Geoscience and forgot the reply to Mary contained her reference.

: --Penny Gruber 22:09, 2 Jul 2008 (EDT)That is another lame lie. You were specific in your reply to Mary Yugo. The reference to Geoscience was yours, and was not a simple inclusion by quote.

: ''Mark Goldes: Mystery solved! Since Geoscience is a name unfamiliar to me, I discovered it appears in a comment by Mary Yugo on the Steorn Forum last Christmas. My answer to her contained it as well, and still stands. My comment was to the effect that in about six months we would have technology that could be submitted to any lab, including that one, without a problem.

: We are not far behind that schedule. As stated elsewhere, before this summer is over, independent testing of our technology is likely to provide an opportunity for numerous self-certain, not exactly friendly, folks to find a rather large quantity of egg on their faces.

: --Penny Gruber 22:55, 30 October 2008 (PDT) Summer came, summer went. MPI did not even submit to any tests. Mark Goldes shifted the dates, and then abandoned altogether. This is straight from the pages of the free energy fraud script written by John Keely over 100 years ago, complete with the claims of energy from the ether.

: --Penny Gruber 22:09, 2 Jul 2008 (EDT)''Faced with a lie that you could weasel out of, you crafted the even more improbable story that you did not recognize your own posting. In a vain attempt to obfuscate your lies, you deleted your post:

: "Interesting. That post is not mine. Someone else evidently posed as Overtone, which I do use as a web name on several websites including Steorn's Forum. As it happens we do not have any knowledge of, or contact with Geoscience."

: (Note to Sterling: I think it is unconscienable to allow Mark or anyone else to materially alter their statements here so as to cover-up lies. If Mark continues to delete his history here, I strongly suggest disabling his login. I have restored Mark's original post to retain the context.)

: ''Mark Goldes: Mistakes are not lies!

: '''However, many of your statements will be proven to be lies later this summer.

: --Penny Gruber 17:51, 5 Jul 2008 (EDT)Your lies were not mistakes of fact. They were clearly mistakes only of tactic as each lie was handily exposed. From your false claim that you never said you would be prepared to test at Geoscience "within six months" from Dec. 26, 2007, to your inane lie that your Steorn posts were made by someone posing as you to your absurd exclamations that you didn't recognize your own posts, to your equivocation of "within" to now supposedly mean "in about", and "in about" to mean "never" (see Mark Goldes' dictionary for definition of "in a few weeks" = "never") all of your lies were intentionally devised to try and turn attention away from the falsity of your repeated claims to subject your fraudulant OU / free energy devices to test "soon". It was really quite delightful to see just how fast you backpedalled on your impersonator lie once you realized Steorn mods could prove those posts were yours. It only got funnier as you clumsily stammered out your stupid lies about not recognizing your own posts.

: You have over the years made your fraud self-evident. You do not posess any OU or free energy technology such as you have repeatedly claimed to have for years, and never did. No one with an ounce of sense needs to wait to determine that indisputable fact. You reprove it each time when against your stated interests, you fail to evidence your wholly fantastical claims. An orange jumpsuit has your name on it. I look forward to the day when you wear it for the first time.

--Penny Gruber 02:40, 28 May 2008 (EDT) Updated

In a May 18, 2008 Infinite Consciousness Audio Interview of Mark Goldes (Download takes several minutes after clicking the link.)

Mark Goldes conditioned his independent test date of before "summer is over" issued April 30, on receiving unspecified funding. Predictably, as with his imminent major funding claims going back years, MPI will not receive funding, and will use this as an excuse not to submit the OU devices they claim they currently have to independent test.

--Penny Gruber 18:47, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

It has taken just one week for Mark Goldes to push the test bar from his imminent "(at long last)" he posted April 23, by more than three months to: "We are still 'expecting' to have EarthTech evaluate a self-running prototype before the 'summer is over'."

New test date Published 04/30/2008

Interestingly, Mark Goldes Now states anything short of a self-running device is not good enough to test. Gone is the idea of EarthTech or another lab validating the measurements MPI has long said establish their devices as OU but not self-sustaining.

: Mark Goldes: Since self-running magnetic devices are now expected to be submitted for tests this summer, there is no point in demonstrating devices that do less. That is the ultimate test for tapping a previously never before commercialized source of energy.

: --Penny Gruber 10:47, 19 Jun 2008 (EDT)"Expected" is no substitute for "is". The bottom line is that you steadfastly refuse to produce ANY evidence to support your false OU claims.

If It's OU Then Test It Already

--Penny Gruber 08:28, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

Mark says he's got at least five devices that are OU. ETI are willing, able, and eager to test any OU device. Enough with the excuses. Do it already. ETI can test MPI's OU claims while MPI chases the ever elusive self-running devices.

Given Mark Goldes' long history of claiming OU and never submitting to test, it is a safe bet that by any: next week, next month, next year, or next decade MPI will not submit any of their claimed OU devices to independent test.

: Mark Goldes: As always, time will tell the tale. Penny and others who doubt MPI technology is real, will soon enough discover they are mistaken.

: Since these technologies are urgently needed as never before, they will surely be widely welcomed.

: --Penny Gruber 21:50, 30 October 2008 (PDT) As of 10/29/2008 you acknowledge you couldn't make the devices work.

: --Penny Gruber 10:41, 19 Jun 2008 (EDT) There is nothing to doubt. Despite your many fraudulant claims, you do not now have nor have you ever had any OU technology.

: ''Mark Goldes: At a time when oil prices have made life difficult for millions, and nuclear power with all its many problems is advocated by many as a solution to our energy problems, our technology, as well as that of every competitive alternative, is urgently needed.

: ''The advantage of our approach is that it has the potential to provide electric cars with unlimited range in the near future, and also to turn electric automobiles, trucks and buses into power plants when suitably parked. Up to 150 kW can be wirelessly transmitted to the grid by vehicles so equipped. Cars not only will require no fuel, but will be able to pay for themselves. As an added bonus, they will be able to wirelessly transmit 10 kW to the home or small business, providing power that following floods, earthquakes, hurricanes and other disasters is likely to be greatly appreciated.

: ''We do not expect anyone with scientific background to accept our claims without independent laboratory validation. People who cry fraud concerning technology they cannot understand or believe are legion. In our case, they will be proven wrong rather soon.

: --Penny Gruber 21:50, 30 October 2008 (PDT)And since MPI never submits to laboratory testing ( for the obvious reason they know they have never had anything that would pass independent test ) no one with or without training should believe MPI's outrageous and unsupported claims. Since MPI has proven so many of their past claims false, there is no reason for anyone to afford MPI any credibility at all.

: --Penny Gruber 18:50, 20 Jun 2008 (EDT) For all that text there is not a scintilla of evidence supporting Mark Goldes fraudulant claims of OU / free energy machines. Years of history have demonstrated the falsity of Mark Goldes future projections.''

Same Story Over and Over

On July 11, 2006, Penny wrote the following by email.

Mark Goldes, CEO of MPI, responded on July 12. His comments are interjected in italices and indented.

It is a bit odd that Mark Goldes is now saying that MPI

needs to verify that they have achieved greater than unity when

June 29, 2006 Goldes expressly stated that they had working

prototypes of their magnetic power generators prior to filing their

patent application.

: Mark Goldes: There is a difference between tests internal to the Company and those done by an independent laboratory.

The stench rising from this effluent should be choking to anyone

with an ounce of sense. Goldes has made the same pitch year after

year. Each time he holds out the promise of a technology that

would shake modern physics to its core. Each time big money is

supposedly just around the corner. Each time Goldes pleas for

"qualified investors" to do what his banker and smart money won't:

provide him with what he calls bridge loans and/or investments.

Even as he is beyond claiming working prototypes, Goldes still has

his hat out on the internet? What is severely wrong with this


: Mark Goldes: Companies without revenues have had a difficult time finding capital since the crash. MPI's subsidiary is a case in point. Our Ultraconductors have been reproduced independently at the Ioffe Institute in St. Petersburg, Russia, the Bar Ilan University in Israel, and Fractal Technologies for the USAF in the U.S. They have been the subject of four completed DOD SBIR Contracts including a Phase I and Phase II with the USAF. We had 15 people working on that remarkable technology, which will ultimately replace copper, and conducts at least 100,000 times better than gold, silver, or any metal. All of that staff have been laid off or have taken a leave of absence. Fortunately, the interest in the energy work is growing and investors with technical backgrounds understand the multi-billion dollar markets that Ultraconductors can enter. Therefore, it is likely we will soon embark on the $18 million, three year, program to fabricate wire. Wire composes 80% of the market for superconductors and Ultraconductors are the practical equivalent of an ambient temperature superconductor, capable of functioning to 200 degrees C (390 degrees F).

Goldes is located near San Francisco one of the premiere high tech

centers in the world. There are immense financial and technical

resources in that region, including the US DoE's Lawrence Livermore

National Laboratory. (Did you know that the DoE offers access to

the national labs at huge discounts to small companies

investigating promising technology? Did you know that sometimes

they will even do the work for free?) If MPI had posession of a

working prototype all those: greedy venture capitalists, curious

academics, and paranoid government officials would have long since

been all over MPI. All he would have to do is define a

reproduceable experiment and untold working capital would be his.

It hasn't happened though, has it?

: ''Mark Goldes: Room Temperature Superconductors Inc. (RTS), our subsidiary developing the Ultraconductors demonstrated at Los Alamos National Laboratory, 120 Amperes flowing through a region of less than 2 microns in diameter. This is roughly 1/50th the diameter of a human hair. Jim Smith, the former Director of the Superconductivity Center at Los Alamos was a member of our Advisory Board for several years, (along with Bill Little, Emeritus Professor of Physics at Stanford University). We found, to our surprise, that Los Alamos did not embrace these remarkable materials. Jim, who no longer worked in superconductivity at Los Alamos, later explained that