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OS:Klimator:Thoughts

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The klimator can be adapted as a CPU fan. The air intake will be directly over the CPU. Thus cooling the CPU. - Stewart Mackenzie 2004/10/9 16:59

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There has been a lot of fuss over the There was an error working with the wiki: Code[1] to about 11000 RPM. It then dawned on me that this idea could be used to drive the klimator and many other Schauberger machines. By embedding magnets into the edge of the OS:Klimator:Plans and placing a solenoid next to the plate, along with the circuit, the machine could be run with a couple of 9V cells. Thereby liberating the klimator from international standards, conventional motors and making it truly portable. - Stewart Mackenzie 2004/10/15 09:20

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The klimator can have a set of turbine blades built into the edge (along with the magnets). If the RPM is taken up to 20,000 RPM or more then you might attain autorotation. When autorotation is attained you need to slow the machine down with some kind of a resistance - in this case it would be a generator, thereby making electricity..... all powered on a couple of 9V cells. Simply wonderful. - Stewart Mackenzie 2004/10/15 09:20

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PAXScientific are doing replications of natural shapes, including turbines and fans and so on. however, they do not seem to know anything about PowerPedia:Viktor Schauberger, unfortunately, because this would be a true meeting of the minds. The Klimator could easily be integrated into a Buckminster Fuller Dymaxion House type living quarters, as a further improvement of an already well-designed "more for less" type livingspace. Coupling Viktor Schauberger's energized water, with the Buckminster Fuller Fog-Gun system, would lead to, at best, a greenhouse system utilizing energized water fog, and adding the Klimator to that picture should lead to noticeable improvements in growth rates and yield.

- Esa Ruoho 2006/03/09 0:06

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Here are some quotes from the viktorschaubergergroup -list.

First, a few lines from Curt Hallberg (of MalmöGroup + http://www.iet-community.org|IETCommunity fame)

"We also know that something happend to a Klimator made by Siemens. This climator melted when some unauthorized persons tried to run it. In this case all magnetic parts completely melted but not copper or aluminium parts! This indicates that very strong magnetic vortices are involved, a clue!"

"When the personnel at Siemens ran the Klimator without Viktors presence, they did something wrong and these magnetic vortices generated so much heat in all magnetic parts that they melted."

then some questions to Curt from Stewart Mckenzie

1.) What is the distance between the two wavy plates?

2.) What diameter of the machine/wavy plates is best to use?

QRT> If you take a look on the picture I sent for a while you can see the distance. The diameter of the waved double membrane is 500 mm and the distance between is around 5 mm. If you scale the picture so the radius is 250 mm you will get the correct distance.

3.) Please refer to the Klimator in Energy Evolution. Note the hollow donut-cowl pressure chamber thing: Is this REALLY needed... (or is that just to allow heating?) Because it will be expensive to make. I choose to leave it out. Will there be any great impact

on the cool air.

QRT> If you mean the picture on pg.168 this is an old version. The version you can see on my picture is one of the latest and very much like the Repulsine. The difference is the heating system and the catalyst. So, I would say the hollow donut can be excluded in a first test.

4.) Depending on radius/diameter of wavy plates what kind of RPM's are we looking at. (I hope to draw from your experience and not only Energy Evolution.)

QRT> Well, in some places 1200 rpm is mentioned and other up to 20,000 rpm. But if we consider the speed of sound as a working point for the perifery we get:

Circumference = radius (0,25 m) 2 PI = 1,571 m The speed of sound is ~340 m/s => 340 / 1,571 = 216,5 rps = 12 987 rpm

However, I know that wavyplates made of copper start to bend at around 8000 rpm (Rauber group). So, if such a high rpm device is used we must have stronger and/or lighter discs....

5.) Refering to the many holes in the Upper wavy-plate. Are these needed? Or is this Schauberger's way of being able to implode as much air as possible?

QRT> You will certainly need a certain amount of air! It is important that the air is preformed before it enters the double membranes and so we have enough of it.

6.) Do both the wavyplate disks rotate on the same axle... (ie. are they both dynamic?) or is one static. (again drawing from your own experience and not just Energy Evolution)

QRT> All of the drawings and photos I have seen I can see nothing other than the double membrane being co-rotating! More, actually the whole upper copper bowl does rotate. The fixed parts are the stand and the metallic ring on the outside. However, the machine tested in Augsburg had one disc fixed according to Olof Alexandersson (author of Living Water). In our group we are not ready with this discussion, yet.....

7.) Is there any advice that you can share with me on how to build one of these machines? (like dont use screws with magnetic properties as they will melt when the diamagnetic forces build up to such a large extent that they break the bonds of the magnetic metal.)

QRT> Viktor used Iron, Aluminium and copper in his devices. The Iron parts where in the stand and the outer ring. He used cast aluminium in a support plate for the double membrane. The other parts: double membrane, the outer and inner bowls and the pre forming inlet were made of high grade acid free copper. Possible, the copper was plated with silver or gold on the active parts (i.e. in contact with process air/water).

8.) The ratio of the cut, shall I do this:

1.) steadily decrease the length of the sine wave by 1:1.618 AND decrease the height of each peak and trough by 1:1.618?

2.) stick to a good ol' sine wave

3.) follow schaubergers straight up and down bend at peak and trough profile

4.) Keep the Height where it is and decrease the period or length of the wave only by 1:1.618.

5.) Keep the Length/Period the same on each iteration of the sine curve but decrease the amplitude or height of the wave by 1:1.618.

QRT> It depends on what your intentions are! If you are going to make like Viktor did you should follow number 3! Then if you want to experiment you should have the same profile if you have one disc fixed otherwise if you co-rotate them you might have an increase of the phase. Let the distance between the tops (and valleys) increase by following the hyperbolic curve. In both cases you could let the tops decrease by following the same curve.

9.) I am going to go for the top of the range Mabuchi motor (http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp) one can specify exactly what one needs. If they dont have it thell make it for you. This is all very good and well but I only have a idea as to what I need. It variable rpm

10,000 down to 4000. Any more light on this issue? (similar to question 4 but different.)

QRT> As you say look in question 4, I do not have any aspects on the choice of motor.

1.) Please let me of the best motor configuration.

10.) You mentioned that Schauberger built one of these machines with Siemens.... if that is the case why on earth has it not his the open market, or are we talking illuminate/other oily slimy people's influence here?

QRT> Becaus it was destroyed and melted down. After this Viktor was so mad so he went on with other experiments. Siemens in their hand "had other things to do"...

11) Again referring to a previous question asked about the peripheral edge of the wavy plate, needs to break the sound barrier¡K.. oh lets not get carried away this is the klimator, not the repulsine. Though ¡K¡K. If I happen to get the fastest motor on the market and crank the klimator¡¦s speed up. What do you predict?.... lost limbs? Radioactive exposure? Sudden levitation¡K.. ohhh this is too exciting!

QRT> Yeah, this is THE question!! Frankly, I do not know but I intend to find out :-D

But, what I think is as some have mentioned and something that Klaus Rauber told me in 2001 we must consider the very name: Repulsin or Re-pulsin.

We have a Repuls i.e. a standing wave between the outer peripheri and the centre. Maybe the frequency can be calculated by looking on the waves of the double membrane. Anyway this is why I think that the speed of sound is interesting. In this speed we have rather instable conditions with lots of noice and pressure "bumps". The chance is high that some frequency is the correct to generate a standing wave between the centre and the peripheri.

This means that we will have a pressure node at the centre and one at the opening (like a Kuntz tube). As the waved double membrane by it's rotation and geometry works together with the sound wave the air will start to flow. When the air passes over the tops it will roll over and shape into tourus (donut) rings.

Or like smoke rings that lies on the membrane. For each wave the smoke ring will be more twisted together and the rotation increase tremendously. When the air in super fast rotation smoke rings comes out at the peripheri they will flow off succing the air on the outside with them. This, together with the inflow will generate a sub pressure above the device and it will start to move into that sub pressure.

Regarding eventual radiation this is something we have to be aware of. This is a technique bringing atoms and molecules very close together. It can be so that we can trigger some nuclear reactions as in cold fusion or similar. Also, be very careful if you are going to rotate plates in a high speed. It is easy to be decapitated... SO BE AWARE OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Now, this is for the co rotating V.S. original system. What happens with our experimental devices is to find out!!

Also, please read Dr Everts papers on: http://www.evert.de/indefte.htm

here you find more on how the Repulse or pressure interference technique works.

Please note, that Walter Schauberger always said the his fathers technique is a resonance technique. This IS important!

Curt Hallberg's response, with a quick few sentences before the responses:

Now, we must all think in terms of low pressure and cold processes. A vortex is a typical example of this. In the centre there is a low pressure (down to vacuum) and this also gives a temperature drop according to the gass laws. So we must learn how to generate a vortex or a system of vortices and how to maintain them in the most efficient way. Then we have an important lesson to make: You can

not utilise a vortex directly! If you do so it will be destroyed and fade out.

What is possible to do is to use the EFFECT of the vortex as the low pressure or the high speed (high kintetic energy) of the central axis after the shaping of the vortex. This last example is utilised in the Heimkraftwerk and the Repulsin. In the Klimator it is the cooling effect that is used. Here we have a strange efffect according to V.S. In the Klimator when used as a heater the hot air did not go to the ceiling but it falled down to the floor!!???

Viktor meant that this is an other type of heat. I do not know if this was so but I have seen a Klimator working and it gets hot, and cold if you choose so.

This Klimator is made of Fritz Watzl in Austria not far from PKS. Sadly it was not made very good and by hand so he did not want us to make some copies...

(curt again) The lift is anecdotic information, a statement given but Viktors favourite design engineer (i can't remeber his name at the moment). However, the event with the klimator that melted at Siemens is recorded and also the exhauts cooling device at the Messeschmidtwerke in Augsburg.

Yes, the thoughts on resonance and standing wave are fruitful clues! Then, the "goal" is not always to generate a standing wave but in my meaning it is so in the case of the co rotating system (i.e. the Repulsin and Klimator).

It is possible to variate the volume of the cavity by changing the geometry of the inner "core" and in this way alter the "ground" frequency for the resonance.

It is also possible to generate a standing wave in the system by using a ludspeaker as an example. However, I am not shure if the energy is enough. Maybe this is why we must have the peripheral speed at or near the speed of sound. This is the energy source that gives the basic energy for the system. This energy is then amplified by the air flow and the vortices that twist together more and more when traveling from the centyre and out.

stewart: A question about preforming the air. Did VS preform the air to make sure there was enough of it to enter the machine? If so then why not open the machine up completely? This would make sure for adequate air supply.

I will have it milled out of Aluminium.

curt: Well, the support parts can be milled out from aluminium but the double membrane should be of copper!

thats all for now..

- Esa Ruoho 2006/07/09 2:13am

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from Frank.Germano.Com:

" "Klimator" which was another machine, primarily designed to produce either "heat" or "cold" temperatures - a pre-modern air conditioner, of sorts."

- OS:Klimator:Main Page

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