OS:Joe Cell:Theory:How charged ions pass through blank bolt

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Preface comment offered by NEC founder, Congress:Member:Sterling D. Allan on April 23, 2006.

Congress:Member:Robert Indech, PhD PE, and member of the There was an error working with the wiki: Code[1] operation, some construction considerations, potential dangers, and a physics explanation of the process.

He doesn't seem to take into consideration that in the Bill Williams paradigm, which had significant input from Peter Stevens, there are two steps in enabling an internal combustion engine running on the Joe Cell, with the fuel line disconnected.

Nevertheless, I think you will find, as I did, that it is refreshing to get a highly academic explanation of the possible process taking place.

His explanation here pertains to step one in which the cell and system is "charged."

It does not explain how the system operates when the positive lead is disconnected from the Joe Cell. For once that is done, it is no longer a matter of electrolysis at all. Rather, from what I understand, the "charged system" is acting as a "gate" through which Orgone energy flows, and somehow the Orgone is providing the motive force for engine operation.

That will be an explanation that will keep physicists busy for a couple hundred years.

It's exciting to be in on the ground floor of history in the making.

Robert, I would invite you to wrap your head around some of the physics models regarding Orgone. James DeMeo's handbook would be a good place to start. He sacrificed his seat in academia in order to go forward with his support of Orgone as a viable and feasible science. He speaks the language of academia, yet his proposal was too far removed from the physics mainstream to be considered as plausible, and was painted instead as heresy.

In a forum comment, Adrian Sykes said: "The best stuff on orgone is by Wilhelm Reich." (Apr 18, 2006) There seem to be a good number of people who agree, based on other comments given. [

Here are a couple of links to the work of James DeMeo. - James DeMeo's website

Image:Orgone Accumulator Handbook 95x95.jpg

The Orgone Accumulator Handbook - 1999 book by James DeMeo teaches hot how to concentrate and work with orgone (life) energy using simple, readily available materials. Includes construction plans, experimental use, and protection regimens against toxic energy.

Robert Indech Remarks (on Theoretical Basis for Stage One)

April 23, 2006

RE: Joe's Cell

Dear Sterling:

While I applaud the efforts of the NEC group to validate the

experimental results of the Joe's Cell, I would predict a mixed report. I

expect a minor improvement in the output power of the gasoline engine for

the reasons described below.

With all psychical explanations aside, the Joe's cell is a sophisticated

electrolysis apparatus. Basic physics notes that one need only enough

electrical potential to break the hydrogen-oxygen bond of the water molecule

to create elemental gasses. This potential is about 1.7 volts. With water at

a non-neutral pH, there is either an abundance of positive ions or negative

ions in the solution, both allowing electrical conduction to occur. Thus,

absolutely clean single metal electrodes and deionized neutral (pH=7) water

will not work. It is as simple as adding salt to a steam vaporizer to cause

it to bubble and hiss.

As a 12 volt source is applied to the system, each concentric stainless

steel cylinder will assume a midway electrical potential between 0

(reference set level) to 12, and as long as the number of concentric

cylinders does not exceed the ratio 12/1.7 (about 7), the system will have

sufficient potential between each cylinder for electrolysis to occur.

With normal methods of metal and rubber fabrication, one cannot obtain

absolute purity. Further, stainless steel by its nature has certain

chemicals added to the iron such as chromium to give it its stainless

character. The "green scum" created at the beginning of the experiment is

simply the addition of the metal and rubber surface contaminants to the

oxygen and hydrogen gas bubbles so generated. Further, imperfections in the

crystal structure of the stainless steel itself would lead to point/line

dislocations and voids, and which would encourage the iron content of the

steel itself to by placed in ionic form in the electrolysis reaction, and

which would naturally float to the top of the bubbling brew. You can easily

create green scum in a conventional laboratory electrolysis cell with a pure

iron electrode.

Remember that ordinary tap water is composed of hydrogen in both its

single proton form (hydrogen) and in its proton-neutron form (deuterium).

Thus, one would expect the gases so generated by the Joe electrolysis cell

to be hydrogen, deuterium, and oxygen, as well as contaminated byproducts

from reaction of the ions of iron and other elements on the metal/rubber

surface with the gases in the air. Placing the output of the Joe's cell in a

blind connection to the carburetor of an IC engine would take into account

the known tendency of hydrogen and deuterium ions (i.e. proton and

proton/neutron) particularly to diffuse through the thin metal barrier and

enter the intake airstream of the IC engine. Closing the system of the Joe's

cell to the atmosphere will allow large pressures to build up driving these

ions through the metal barrier. Be extremely careful that there is an

overpressure vent on your Joe's cell or you will have a gas pressure

explosion. Don't forget that at atmospheric pressure, the equivalent volume

of equal masses of a gas and a liquid is in the ratio of about 1000 to 1,

thus no perceptible change in the volume of the water will be observed over

a short time experiment. Pressure builds rapidly in an electrolysis closed

system. It is essential that the Joe's cell be constructed of heavy metal to

withstand the pressure. Elemental oxygen will also diffuse through the metal

barrier, although at a substantially slower rate the rate of all species

diffusion is governed by Fick's law and depends upon the diffusivity

constant of the metal barrier (which is species dependent). This elemental

gas ion delivery system could be optimized for ion transmission by carefully

designing the thickness and composition of the barrier between the

generating area and the air intake flow stream in the carburetor throat.

Addition of such ions into the carburetor flow stream will cause the

gasoline microdroplets to atomize further, until they fully enter the

complete vapor phase. Thus, this ion addition to the air flow stream will

eliminate the incomplete combustion that occurs when only the hydrocarbon

shell of the gasoline microdroplet reacts with the air intake oxygen in the

piston cylinder, allowing complete reaction to occur, with final engine

chemical byproducts of carbon dioxide and water. It is well known that

inputting only the hydrocarbon vapor from a gasoline tank and combining it

with oxygen in a piston cylinder with produce the highest mass to energy

ratio of the available chemical energy of the gasoline, with the lowest

emissions. The overriding problem is that this mode of operation of IC

engines is not compatible with rapidly changing fuel intake rates thus, one

gains far better gasoline efficiency when using a constant rate gasoline

engine recharge of batteries in a hybrid engine scheme than when uses a

conventional IC gasoline engine alone.

In conclusion, there should be some results if the system is

constructed correctly. However, as obvious from the explanation above, by

intelligent engineering design, one can optimize the generation rate and

physical variables of the hydrogen/deuterium/oxygen ions with the IC engine

intake air stream and gasoline atomization to gain the best overall fuel

consumption. It would be a better way to do business.

Sincerely, Congress:Member:Robert Indech, PhD PE

Response Regarding Orgone by James DeMeo, PhD

Dr. James DeMeo gave the following response on April 23, 2006.

Dear Mr. Allan and Dr. Indech,

Thank you for sharing this email communication with me. I've been

studying Dr. Reich's work experimentally and theoretically since

1970, and did the first work on this question in an American

university in the 1970s (univ. of Kansas) since the "ban and burn"

orders against his writings. I was able to carry forward with open

investigations on this subject for about ten years in my academic

posts before the organized "skeptics" began their campaign of

villification and public attack. See this 1989 article for some


A heresy, indeed! And funny considering how other-worldly and

lacking in empirical foundations has much of modern physics theory

become since his time. In any case, Reich coined the term "orgone"

to describe a natural phenomenon which appears to co-join the older

concepts of "vital force" and "cosmological ether". I am convinced

of its reality because the original experiments Reich outlined for

proof yield up results either very close to or identical to his

original claims. For an overview of experimental investigations

along these lines, I invite any honest skeptic to review the

experimental papers, for one example, as given in the most recent

issue of our journal, "Heretic's Notebook: Emotions, Protocells,

Ether-Drift and Cosmic Life Energy, with New Support for Wilhelm


This book gives actual experimental protocols and far more details

than my "Orgone Accumulator Handbook" which is a bare-bones

introduction for the educated layperson, and mostly on how to

construct the orgone blankets and accumulators which are used for

health-therapeutic purposes. One very good tightly controlled

experiment reported in "Heretics Notebook", which has 30-odd papers

by 18 different professionals, is my own study on "Seed-Sprouting

Inside the Orgone Accumulator" which yielded up an approximate 40-50%

increase in growth of the orgone-charged group over the controls. As

a basic foundation, there also are double-blind and controlled

studies on the basic bio-physiological effects of the orgone

accumulator on people as well, undertaken at the University of

Marburg and University of Vienna, and these are cited in my books,

but also in a special list of academic theses and dissertations on

the subject of Reich's work which appears in the online "Bibliography

on Orgonomy":

It is a complex subject, related in my view to the same issues now

being grappled with by mainstream science on the

"dark-matter/dark-energy" question, or between the advocates of

Einstein's relativity theory and the growing numbers of physicists

who are reverting back to something close to the older ether-drift

theories -- I've written extensively on that subject as well, in

papers also published in "Heretics Notebook" (web link above), and

also here:

As to the Joe Cell, I've heard about this for years, but never

investigated it personally, so I cannot comment with any direct

knowledge. Of course, I cannot endorse it for the sole reason I have

not yet seen a convincing demonstration, but remain open-minded and

supportive of all efforts towards that goal. I really hope it works,

as the world needs more such technological innovation towards freedom

from petroleum resources. But I wish to emphasize, even if the Joe

Cell is ultimately unworkable or unpractical, for whatever reasons,

it would not be any kind of defeat of Reich's larger findings on the

discovery of the orgone energy, which remains an independent

discovery already well-supported from a number of directions. The

academic professional who is skeptical of my statement should simply

recall the history of science, the mistreatment and suppression of

figures like Galileo, Pasteur, Robert Goddard and even the Wright

Brothers during their early years. With Reich, the books were

actually burned by the orthodox medical zealots working with those

who would later on form the organized "skeptic" movement. So one

must go out of one's usual way, to search out the publications and

experimental verification reports for Reich's orgone energy, and not

take the usual position that because it has not appeared in the pages

of Science or Nature, that there must not be anything to it.

Personally speaking, I will happily convert my own vehicle to a Joe

Cell, and be happy to purchase the conversion kit from others who

might make a small business of this, and lend my full support to it,

once it is sufficiently demonstrated. While others might disagree, I

do not think we are yet at that point. So to all the experimenters

out there, I send my most enthusiastic encouragements, but also

remind everyone that the bar is raised pretty high for demonstrations

of any kind of free-energy device. Only practical demonstrations of

the "Wright-Brothers" variety will do -- and we know that even they

had a hard time going in the first years.

Best wishes to all,

James DeMeo

PS. I note that simple aspirin did not have an adequate explanation

for its biochemistry until many decades after it was invented, and

put into widespread use.

James DeMeo, Ph.D.

Orgone Biophysical Research Lab

Greensprings Center

Natural Energy Works

PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA

telephone/fax (541) 552-0118

e-mail: demeo(at) or

Jan Wicherink on Orgone

Posted to JoesCell2 list

From: "Jan Wicherink"

Date: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:34 am

Subject: Re: Robert Indech gives Joe Cell function explanation from academic perspective

Dear Mr. Sterling Allan,

I read Robert Indech's explanation of how the Joe Cell might operate

with great interest.

Recently I started to look for alternative explanations that might

explain the Joe Cell even better. Quit honestly I have my doubts

about the hydrogen theory since I do not believe that the car runs on

hydrogen at all! There's probably a completely different working

force behind the Joe Cell. I postulate that the piston of the engine

is being moved by a trust that is created by an imploding ether

vortex, an effect that is closely related to the Biefeld-Brown effect

(see also Jean Louis Naudin's experiments with his ether vortex

propelled flying sourcer and his lifer experiments

But that's only phase two of a possible explaining as to how the

engine runs on the Orgone energy. Let's start with an alternative

view of what Orgone energy may be and how it could be channeled by

the Joe Cell:

I've read some of Kosal Ouch's postings on this forum and his claims

about the sacred geometry and torsion fields involved in the way the

Joe Cell works sounds very familiar to me!

I've come across the work of Daniel Winter who's implosion physics is

able to quit clearly explain what Orgone, Chi, zero point energy

might be and he also gives a plausible explanation as to how water is

able to resonate with this energy, becoming a super conductor

channeling the `free energy' from the vacuum.

In order to understand Winter's theories we must first understand his

theoretical model of atom. His theory states that the atom is an

arrangement of ether vortexes in Platonic Solid symmetries whereby

each imploding vortex corresponds with what classical physics calls

an electron. These Platonic Solids can be arranged one inside the

other forming fractals in donut shaped arrangements of these

vortexes. Count the number of faces of the Platonic Solids and you

have the number of electrons in the p, d and f sub shells. Count the

number of Platonic Solids in the atom and you have found the number

of sub shells.

An imploding vortex in his model of the atom is a series of imploding

electromagnetic waves with Golden Mean or Phi ratio. Because the

wavelengths maintain a Golden Mean ratio, they can implode NON-

DESTRUCTIVELY. The implosion creates ever smaller wavelengths until

the waves collapse into a zero still point where the energy gets

compressed to infinity just like what happens in the eye of a

tornado! Russian science has discovered this as well and calls it a

torsion field!

In Winter's implosion physics the atom is just a energy matrix that

fits into an even bigger matrix, the Earth grid

(, the Platonic Solids

energy forms that are present in the Earth's electromagnetic energy

field (icosa-dodeca), and even they lock into larger wavelengths

those of the zodiac (dodeca), the galaxy and the universe. Recent

scientific discoveries indicate that the center of our galaxy is

torus shaped and it has also been suggested that the shape of the

universe is dodeca.

This knowledge is not new at all, it's the secret behind sacred

geometry, which is just a remnant of an ancient science that teaches

us HOW vibrations can form all of the Platonic Solids as standing

wave interference patterns as in Hans Dr Jenny's science called

cymatics ( This is basically what an

atom is a standing wave pattern in the fabric of space, the ether,

taking on Platonic Solid symmetry interference patterns.

Now back to the water. In a quit recent new theory, Professor Martin

Chaplin of London South Bank University, shows that water is able to

arrange itself by means of hydrogen bonding into super icosahedral

structures of 1820 water molecules:

This structuring of water molecules in Platonic Structures

(Icosahedrons and dodecahedron) is ANOTHER LAYER of SELF ORGANISATION

within the matrix of this universe, from the atomic level, to the

molecular level. What happens is that water through this internal

self-similarity with the internal structure of the atom in fractal

form, will start to act like a super conductor to this imploding

Orgone energy! To put it in other words, ANOTHER LAYER in the

imploding fractal, which is Orgone energy is added!

I therefore believe that Kosal Ouch's remark about a pyramid

(octahedron) put above the Joe Cell, will indeed increase the Orgone

flow of energy. The pyramid an octahedron will act as yet another

LAYER in the fractal and will enhance the implosion. Russian

scientist Alexander Golod has years of experience with this pyramid

power and the torsion fields that are being created by it.


The secret of the Joe Cell, I believe is that it mimics nature, the

channeling of Orgone energy by our own body cells. It's is a

mechanism that nature has perfected over millions of years! The

initial voltage applied to the Joe cell, may not only start a

hydrolysis process, but also trigger the formation of more structured

water, i.e. the formation of MORE icosahedral water clusters! Our own

body cells are actually little Joe Cells with a low electrical

potential and are channeling the same Orgone energy by internally

structuring the water molecules. Scientists have discovered that the

water inside a cell is structured differently from the water outside

a cell!

So what happens inside the Joe Cell is probably what happens is

happening in our own body cells and the Orgone energy, the Chi or

Life Force of the universe is attracted.

Please have a look at Daniel Winter's page on Orgone energy and his

implosion physics:

As a starter on implosion physics you could also read chapter 6 of my

on-line e-book `Souls of Distortion Awakening':

Or download it in PDF form:

Response to Jan Wicherink

the glaxay is like a huge torsion generator -- Jaiyson (Apr 24, 2006 9:46 am)


Throw the science books out the window

Here is another example of an academic struggling for an explanation of a technology not found in mainstream science books. One thing comes through loud and clear when dealing with the Joe Cell. Throw the science books out the window.

Robert Indech, for all his impressive credentials, completely ignores what has been stated many times. This is NOT an electrolytic process.

What I believe is much closer to the truth, is in one of the references given by your own colleague, Congress:Member:Leslie R. Pastor, also a member of your New Energy Congress and a well respected correspondent to a number of alternative energy sites... -- John Carter (Apr 23, 2006)

R. Indech's Reply:

: John is correct. I am an academic with 35 years prototyping experince and degrees all over the map. I noticed that all of the devices that New Energy Congress considers important are working devices, based on sound (and innovative) science.

: If we throw the science books out the window, we might as well try to operate on faith alone. However, it is quite difficult to develop operating devices based on faith or any of its ghostly manifestations.

: Science is not the end-all and be-all, but it is a good foundation on which to build. I wait expectantly for any of the NE Congress Tech group to rigorously prove the Joe Cell works. If so, [...] stock in the major oil companies may not be worth much in a world which doesn't need any to run automobiles. -- R. Indech (Apr. 24, 2006)


Electrolytic : of or produced by electrolysis.

The moment we apply an electric potential to two or more electrodes submerged in or in contact with a liquid and gas results, we are involved in electrolysis, an electrolytic process. Even if the short duration of electrolysis is just to condition the water, electrolysis is

electrolysis. -- tomboceaser (Apr 23, 2006)

Nature Gets Last Laugh

Even if 2 people agree in the way to think about this it's never

going to be good enough. Everybody will have their own opinion based on

what they know and how they think. What to do! Just shut up and

experiment is all I can say, as you are trying to point out. Now the

acadmic scientists are only "one" of the crowd. It's even more

confusing because of the wish we all have to make it ourselves and

undrestand it whoever we are and the supposed conciousness element in

orgone. This whole thing is very joyous and making me laugh alot. But I

must say I respect Viktor Shauberger the most.Because he loved and

respected nature. And sometimes I think the Joe cell is Nature's last

laugh. -- long_boat_roz (Apr 23, 2006)