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Article:Hydrogen-Assist Fuel Cell Warning from Former Installer

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Former Hydrogen-Assist Fuel Cell (HAFC) installer, Richard Coyle, said the units sometimes work at first, but then the improvements go away, and in their place some serious problems arise such as stuck idle motors, boiling water and gunk in the motors, plugged air filters. "One HAFC blew apart and sprayed chemical all over the engine."

The second article below is from a customer who says that Jeff Otto charged him $100 when he evoked the "money back guarantee" after getting the runaround in trying to find someone to install his system and learning he'd have to drive 12 hours.

Contents

Article I

by Richard Coyle <racprops {at} cox.net>
posted July 22, 2008


Background

This is what I have seen over the past four months, sorry the HAFC was not good, in fact so bad I quit, after a lost/cost of around $20,000.00 invested.

I have worked on about 12 cars and only one had a unknown defect.

The rest all were fine good running cars.

Many got good mileage at first but all have problems show up, some with in a couple of days.

Three saw no improvement.

We got better mileage in two cars (32 to 43MPG) and Then got 71 MPG and 81 MPG up from 32 MPG stock on two other cars, and took two vans from 12 MPG to 19/20MPG.

BUT not one would hold it, all faded away with in a few days to a week and all got problems, like stuck idle motors (2), boiling water and gunk in the motors,(4) two got plugged air filters, one HAFC blew apart and sprayed chemical all over the engine.

One van is a 87 MiniVan and has no computer to fight us but it loses it mileage with in a week and we have to clean and renew its water and chemicals. It seems we are cracking the chemical not the water.

Now, I assure you, I do know what I am doing. I was trained by one of their best trainers and certified as a trainer/teacher myself, and IF I did not know what I was doing, how did I get such high mileage's figures??

I quit the company when I saw all of the last cars: two vans and four cars and the problems we were getting, two idle motors stuck, three cars with idle problems, boiling water in one car, soft hoses, hoses slipping off fittings, a car when it lost a hose and sprayed chemical all over the engine, heard from a dealer melt downs was common, heard from Mike Holler on a tech line call how someone had to buy a new transmission when a HAFC leaked and ate a hole though the aluminum case, blame was placed on installer, bet he did not know how soft the crap hoses get at engine temps, might rethink the cause of that failure...NO safety to cut power to cell if it runs dry, no way for car to run right with a downed cell....

Lack of any instructions to add bubbler...( now added I hear...)

I for one can not afford to buy someone a new motor after this system eats the motor. I sure can not afford to buy EVERYONE a new motor...

I have been warning everyone I could.

Warnings

I will repeat this warning as often as needed. On any and all Hydro systems:

There are two main risks: explosion and chemical damage to your engine.

Double Bubblers

Beware of any that call for lots of chemical, (KOH, NaOH (lye)) use double bubblers to help catch any before going to your motor. It does not stay in the tanks but can get into your motor as gas, I have posted pictures of a Bubbler that contains this gunk and how it coats the walls to show you of this problem.


Other Cautions

Feed gas below your air filter to let it be you last line of defense.

DO NOT use any of the wire and glass jar units.

What every unit you get, if they do not tell you to control the main relay with the Fuel Pump relay, be worried what else they did not tell you correctly.

NEVER NEVER set it up to turn on any other way, BUT so it comes on after the motor is running and is turned off automatically with the motor.

I know of three cases where this was NOT done, one burst his air cleaner, another broke his intake manifold and the third one was lucky his battery was dead that morning as his ran as long as the battery was able to power it, one spark and good by truck.

Many cells start making gas within seconds and it can fill the air cleaner before you get started, add a slight misfire and BOOM.

NEVER NEVER hook it up to any engine vacuum.

The Fuel pump relay is the only way to go.

IF there is no fuel pump relay (like Toyota) use the oil presser sender.

I feel this is so important I am giving the design away.


Article II

On 22 Jul 2008, Ken (Goog One) <googone113 {at} yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm trying to tell everyone that I can about my bad customer experience with Jeffotto.com, Dutchman, and the HAFC system. I don't want any more victims.

In June 08 I paid for a HAFC system (Hydrogen fuel cell system). Then, I spoke with Jeff at http://jeffotto.com (never able to call him and get him to answer- he always has to return my call) I asked Jeff for a list of the trained certified technicians/installers/tuners (hereafter referred to as tuners) so I could start shopping before my HAFC arrived. He said they're all making too much money now that they've gone through the training with Dennis Lee, and they're doing their own HHO car systems & conversions now - & they can't talk to me. I felt bummed out about that. He said just find any mechanic to install it.

After I was off the phone I realized if I can't find a "tuner" then I won't get the warrantee. If I don't get the warrantee and the system doesn't work, I'm out approx. $1000.00. OOOOUUUUCCHHH! So, figuring if Jeff wont give me the info, I'll just call direct to the company that I understood Jeff was a distributor for, to obtain a list of tuners. So I called Dutchman Tel 973-545-2498 or 281-998-4735. The lady I spoke with gave me email addresses for two tuners. She apologized that she couldn't give me any more info than that. So, I emailed both. One never did respond.

The other was nice enough to call and told me that he wasn’t able to make the system work right. In fact, he said he had all but totally messed up one of his vehicles trying to do the system on it. He said he was in contact with other tuners who couldn’t make it work either. I certainly didn't want any part of that.

It was then about 10 days after the credit card purchase) I called, and emailed to cancel the order and refund the purchase price. Jeff said he would charge me $100 and cancel the order. I protested the $100.00 charge for a lot of reasons, but none were good enough for him. In fact, Jeff thought it was reasonable for me to drive 12 hours to see a tuner he knew of. So, if you’re a potential client you better be aware of that. I’m in the largest city in Alabama - Birmingham. Why should I have to drive 12 hours for a tuner? Keep in mind that I received a notification that the order would be around 6-8 weeks before it could be delivered, so I knew the HAFC wasn't shipped yet. This was simply a paperwork credit issue, & Jeff refused to provide the full refund.

I cancelled my order approx. 9 days after the original order. He said there is some kind of verbiage on the website that says he can charge me $100.00 if I cancelled the order. I never read anything to that effect. I thought I was getting a 100% money back guarantee, so I felt safe making the expenditure. If the system wasn’t what Dennis Lee said, I'd get my money back.

To put it nicely HOGWASH! Don't you believe it! Cost me $100.00 trusting their “guarantee?. Buyer Beware - this thing is a scam & fraud !!! Stay away!

See the followup by Richard Coyle in the Comments section below...

- - - -

On July 29, 2008, Jeff Otto responded:

As Paul Harvey so eloquently put it “Now for the rest of the story?:

What this guy does not tell you here is he (they?) signed up as an affiliate under the name of MegaTelcom Inc. not disclosing a name behind the company. Once they were contacted we were informed the PERSON would be Peggy Bedwell (confirmed by the Sec of State filing). Using an Email of alanderson@megatelcominc.com so who knows if this PERSON is actually Ken, Al or Peggy, looks like they would like to remain unknown.

It is hard to make sense out of all this rambling garbage above but we will try to pick out the points and give it shot...

A total misrepresentation of our conversations but yes he did get a call back, as does everyone, on each occasion.

1) What was stated to him is as an affiliate it would greatly behoove him to locate a shop advertising “Auto Diagnostic Services? for not only his install but for his future customers, the DVDs should be all they need.

2) That the Savings Warrantee on the product did not even begin until AFTER he visited a Certified Technician, whether that is next month or 6 months from now. That is available to all at http://bwt.jeffotto.com/hafc-warrantee.htm

3) Nothing was ever discussed verbally concerning the Cancellation Policy or reasons therefore.

He claims to have spoken to someone at Dutchman and given two mechanics in his area and one claims they could not get it to work. Interesting guess we are supposed to take your word for this one, and I for one would like to know how you obtained contact information for Dutchman (the patent holder).

What he does not mention; his Emails threatening to sic his Attorneys, as well as the Attorney General of 3 states, on us (yes Ken, Al or whoever they are all saved to disk).

The order on June 30th (cancellation request dated July 10) was placed under the company name, not for retail but wholesale (outright lie concerning the $1,000), as an active affiliate through our Fast Start Package which includes all of the mechanic training DVD series, all the information any mechanic would need for a successful install.

He demands a full refund 10 days later. The reason for the cancellation policy was explained to him in an Email as follows: The reason for the charge is simply, we face expenses by processing the transaction and man hours for both us and Dutchman trying to intercept your order. Added to that the fact we cannot simply re-direct your product to the next customer inline we have to accept delivery and than turn around and pay for shipping to the legitimate customer and could even add a re-stocking fee if we wanted to be jerks about it. Refund / Cancellation Policy on site at http://www.jeffotto.com/return.htm

He goes on to claim “this THING is a Scam and Fraud!?, now how would someone know that without every receiving or installing the product? And how does he hope to disprove the thousand plus applications on the road now averaging double mileage across the board?

Well Ken, Al or whatever your name is other than Peggy Bedwell hiding behind your corporation you have slandered myself, my business, a patented product of which we happen to represent as well as the patent holder of that product in a public forum. You sir, as well as your corporation, will be held accountable.

Jeff Otto, Secretary JeffOtto.com LTD DBA http://www.JeffOtto.com/

Comments

See also

HYDROGEN, GENERAL

HYDROGEN PRODUCTION AND STORAGE

HYDROGEN APPLICATIONS

FUEL EFFICIENCY

FUEL TREATMENT TECHNOLOGIES

ELECTRIC VEHICLES

VEHICLE HARDWARE MODIFICATIONS

AWARDS

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