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Directory:Rotoverter:Replications:Deliverance

Lasted edited by Andrew Munsey, updated on June 14, 2016 at 10:02 pm.

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the Deliverance Circuit is a device with which to extract energy out of the resonance created in the RotoVerter off-the-shelf device. Patrick J. Kelly is in the works of an introduction for this, and here are some summaries. the circuit schematic is at the bottom.

"the resonance collection from the Prime Mover as shown in NeonPeakDetectorSwitchingV1.3"

Summary 2007

Davidkou:

Generally it's (the Deliverance 1.3 circuit) a very simple test to do as a proof of principle for the diode plug recovery method.

In many way's even easier than a Bedini energiser, but with better results, and with off the shelf (or more probably from the dump)

three phase motors. Therefore, it should attract many people to the RotoVerter and associated technology, who (like me) otherwise might be at first intimidated with the full RV-Alternator system.

Here is a summary of Davidkou & Patrick J. Kelly discussion

Patrick - 1. What is a "Deliverance" circuit?

David- Around 2005 Jinis had published some interesting results with the Directory:Transverter (ferroresonant transformer) at 50Hz mains frequency, and Hector had advised to continue measurements but with different frequencies and duty cycles. Around May 2006, I uploaded to the EVGRAY group my "squealing pig inverter" circuit to generate 120/240V ac square wave, variable frequency and duty-cycle from 12V DC battery, for use in Trans-verter experiments.

Then, coincidently, I got a 7.5 HP 3phase motor from the dump and started running that with the mains in RV mode, via a variac to get it to run off around 100V ac. Then, I was able to switch from the mains over to the inverter power, and then to increase the frequency, speed and reduce the duty cycle. I posted this info at the EVGRAY group, and the name changed from "squealing pig" to “Deliverance Inverter", as Hectors joking reference about the movie Deliverance.

So at this stage, the "Deliverance Inverter" is just a simple variable frequency/duty cycle inverter, able to efficiently run a 3phase motor at different speeds .Then in summer 2006, many in the EVGRAY group were discussing different methods resonant collection, in particular the "Diode Plug" method, given by Hector. So I uploaded another add on circuit to the inverter which synchronized the switching of the Diode Plug with the Deliverance Inverter, and I called this add on circuit "Deliverance RV resonance Recovery 1.1". I kept the name Deliverance in the title, because the resonance recovery circuit used the triangular wave in the original Deliverance Inverter.

In April 2007, after Hector suggested the idea of using a Neon to detect the peak voltages in the Diode Plug, I uploaded a revised resonance recovery circuit, which doesn't need to be synchronized to the Deliverance Inverter because it detects and synchronizes to the actual voltage waveform across the resonant capacitor in circuit. I dropped the "Deliverance" and called this circuit "Neon Peak Detector and Switching V1.3", because it can operate with mains or any inverter. It is quite a bit simpler than the previous version (Deliverance RV resonance Recovery 1.1) which it supersedes, and yet is more universal.

I think it is this "Neon Peak Detector and Switching V1.3" that guys in the group now refer to as the “Deliverance Circuit", which is not really a good name for it, because it is now separate and independent of the original Deliverance Inverter. Probably the name Deliverance has been associated with me, which is no problem, but I wouldn't want to confuse someone new to the group into thinking

that the Neon Peak Detector and Switching V1.3 needs the Deliverance Inverter in any way. You can decide what to call it for the write up.

Patrick - Is the objective of the circuit to locate and lock-on to the resonant point of the Prime Mover and so pull out excess energy or just pull available energy at any point of operation?

Davidkou - Now that we know we're talking about "Neon Peak Detector and SwitchingV1.3" I would describe the objective to be as follows

To extract energy from the Diode Plug capacitors, without a corresponding increase in energy taken from the resonant source.

So, to answer your question "Is the objective of the circuit to locate and lock-on to the resonant point of the Prime Mover and so pull out excess energy" the answer is really "No" because the Prime Mover is already in resonance by previously using the optimum Run Capacitor for the motor and load (if any). The optimum Run Capacitor in this situation on the Prime Mover is by definition, the value which achieves resonance i.e. Minimum current draw with power factor of 1(voltage and current in phase).

Patrick- Is the objective to extract "cold" electricity from the Prime Mover to charge a battery bank in a similar way to John Bedini's various circuits or is the objective standard "hot" electricity?

David- There are some similarities in John Bedini's methods as he has published on the various groups and sites that I am familiar with, but there are also some big differences. But again the answer to that question is No, and I'll stick with my objective as stated in 1. I think Hector has a point when avoiding the term "cold" electricity of Vassilatos, Lindemann et al. I tend to look at this as a type of RF merging somehow with power rectification.

Patrick - What is special about the Deliverance circuit - in what way is it superior to the many alternative circuits?

David -The Neon Peak Detector and Switching V1.3 circuit, is a super simple proof of principle circuit for a Diode Plug test, with minimal components. I wouldn't claim it to be superior because I don't know, and haven't compared it to other circuits. As far as I understand, the Diode Plug is normally used on the Alternator side of a RV Prime Mover and Alternator mechanically linked system. I'm not doing that because I haven't got that far yet. I'm just taking the Prime Mover with no load, putting a Diode Plug across the Run Cap, and extracting from that. No Alternator involved at all. That's why I say it's a good introduction to the RV subject, and hopefully a stepping stone to the proper RV-Alternator mechanically linked system.

Patrick- Why would your average individual want to build and use this circuit? Looking at the circuit from a beginner's point of view, it appears to be a variation of John Bedini's solid-state circuit where one capacitor is charged (from back EMF?) for dumping into the battery and the second capacitor is charged up until the neon fires and operates the opto-isolator to trigger the SCR to feed the capacitor energy into the battery.

David- Yes, that's it in a nutshell. The crucial part is the timing of the dumping into the battery in relation to the voltage waveform across the Run Cap (and Diode Plug Caps).At the peak voltage on one diode plug cap, is the moment when the alternate diode plug cap(previously charged up) is dumped into the battery. The Bedini circuit you describe sounds similar, but I'd like to see it before comparing. Do you have an image?

Patrick -Why waste the power in the second capacitor just to operate the opto-isolator - why not use it also to charge the battery and trigger the opto-isolator from a 555 timer or similar low-power circuit?

David -The Neon triggers the opto-isolator with a tiny current spike of a fraction of a milliamp. It's important to draw as little as possible here so as not to upset the resonance of the Run Cap, or create a false trigger. However, the other diode plug cap dumps a 30 Amp or sharper spike into the load battery without any effect on the prime mover. I don't see how a 555timer will help here. While I remember, I would recommend using a Thyristor Tester to check them before use. I have uploaded a simple tester in the EVGRAY files section called"Thyristor-TriacTesterV1.0.rar".

Patrick- Why is the Deliverance circuit important - how much more does it charge the battery than applying the circuit input power straight to the battery - is it to get mechanical drive from the motor while charging the battery at the same time?

David- I have yet to do the measurements to see how fast the load batteries are charged in relation to say an identical Run Battery on an inverter used to power the Prime Mover. I'm not making any claims of OU or looping. The important point is that whatever rate the load batteries are charged, it is not loading the prime mover any extra whatsoever. If not from the prime mover, Where is that extra charging power coming from ? That’s the main question. This is a proof of principle that the Diode Plug extracts power without increasing load to the Prime Mover. My motor is old and from the dump without much attention to the bearings, yet it runs on about 70Watts in RV-mode under no load. Others on the group are running big RV motors at 40 Watts or less with no load. With Diode Plug extraction, they will still be drawing 40 Watts, but also charging another load battery (or two) for free. I would like to know what rates of charge people can attain with experiment.

Patrick- If the answer to the last question is "yes", then can the inverter being used to power the RVPM be driven directly off the battery under charge?

David-You are asking for the Holy Grail, which I haven't yet tried, but I'm sure going to try when I’ve experimented a bit more. Before that though, I would like to look at optimizing charging rates with separate load batteries.

Patrick -. Can you quote some representative figures for Input Power, Shaft power and charging rate in any convenient replication of this?

David- Input Power is around 70 Watts on my old motor with bad bearings and no load. When I charge another Load Battery by extracting from the Diode Plug cap, the Input Power doesn't change at all. Shaft Power is zero, other than friction, noise and a bit of heat etc charging Rate is the variable That needs to be investigated.

Patrick- If you were using the attached circuit with the extra DC motor, where would you connect the Deliverance circuit (without upsetting the PM operation)?

Image:Philwood rv related schematic.JPG

David -That is Phil’s circuit with 3 Run Caps in WYE wiring. The evil genius hast hen used a FWBR to use a smaller DC motor to help the big 3 phase motor to start up without taking too many amps. Maybe he also has a way to take power from the DC motor after the whole shebang is up and running. I would connect three individual diode plugs across C1, C2 and C3, then I would extract from their six diode plug caps into three different load batteries without drawing any extra from the AC input. There is a limit on how big the Diode Plug capacitors can be, relative to the Run Caps. Hector has given the limiting relation (Cd1 + Cd2)

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