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Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Data:Exp10

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You are here: PES Network > Main Page > There was an error working with the wiki: Code[1] > Directory:Bedini SG:Replications > Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES > Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan > Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Data > Experiment 10

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Exp. 10 Supercharging All 6Vs

'Experiment 10 from Sterling D. Allan's Replication of John Bedini's "Directory:Bedini SG"'

Separate Page

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Data:Exp10.2 Ohms v Amps v RPM Chart

Experimental Set-up

Using the Directory:Bedini SG:Schematic as defined in this project, with the exception that the resistance of the resistor is being modified to various resistances in the process of charging the batteries. Rotation as well as solid state resonance are being used (not at the same time).

I'm using the same eight LC-R064R2P 6V Panasonic batteries that I have been using. Battery eight is providing input (with trickle charge supplmentation) for the duration of this supercharging. Batteries 1-7 are receiving the charge. They have been introduced as their voltages were matched with the set, so that major equilibration between varying voltage batteries is not an issue. The largest difference between batteries has been .01v when introduced to the charging set.

Image:SDA Bedini SG 7charging one input.jpg

Generally, the solid state mode is set optimally for the highest amp output (0.11 amps into charging batteries), and the rotation mode is likewise set optimally for the highest amp output (0.04 amps into charging batteries).

Materials

All eight 6V batteries as have been 6V Panasonic-BSG 4.2Ah/20h sealed lead acid batteries part number LC-R064R2P from Digikey.com.

Data Sheet | photo | catalogue

Data

Solid State charges faster per amps in

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/message/197

Nov. 6, 2004

I do not mean to contradict what John and Peter stated. They said that even though we have found a solid state resonance in this Bedini SG (simplified) circuit, it was not designed to work as such, and that other modifications need to be made to optimize the non-rotation resonance variation. They wish for us to focus on this circuit as designed -- rotating wheel powered by input battery causing output batteries to be charged. John also commented that the wave form that Jim reported does not look like the wave form they get when things are operating properly.

That said, I would like to report by way of information that I have observed that on a purely electrical basis, speaking of amps and volts, putting aside the question of radiant energy, I have found that THE CIRCUIT OPERATES MORE EFFICIENTLY IN SOLID STATE MODE THAN IN ROTATION MODE.

The amps IN versus amps OUT ratio is significantly more favorable in the rotation mode than in the solid state mode.

In my present experiment 10.0 (supercharging all the batteries), for example, I am switching between solid state mode and rotation mode, all other things remaining the same. The input battery is the same battery through the duration of the supercharging (with trickle charge when needed to keep it above the 20% discharge level), with five batteries being charged on the output side.

The highest output combination I have been able to get in rotation mode (adjusting potentiometer to find max amps) is 0.37 amps into the circuit, producing 0.08 amps out to the batteries, with the wheel rotating at around 176 rpm. This is a 22% conversion of input energy to output energy (on a purely electrical level, leaving out the question or possibility of radiant energy not being picked up by the meters).

The highest output combination I have been able to get in solid state mode is 0.11 amps in, which produces 0.04 amps out to the batteries being charged. This is a 36% conversion of input energy to output energy.

On a purely electrical level, this shows the solid state charge to be nearly 30% more efficient than the rotation based charge, as would be expected inasmuch as the rotation charge involves energy losses in the rotation of the wheel.

I would like to go through my data and tabulate the input/output amp relationship and see if I can't get some kind of graph produced from the composite regarding electrical efficiency. Of course it is not the plain electrical phenomenon that is of interest to us here. We are after the radiant energy.

Has anyone taken oscilloscope shots from the rotating wheel output? How do they compare to scope shots from the solid state output? Are there harmonic regions where the signal modifies its shape? Or does the signal change gradually with the change in resistance of the resistor in the circuit?

What about adding resistor to new battery

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/message/210

Thinking ahead

After finishing this present supercharging cycle of all batteries (except the one input battery), as I anticipate running the battery rotation experiment (pending SDA Exp. 11), I am thinking that there should be a way to introduce the discharged battery into the set of charged batteries without just linking directly, causing a large flux between the two. I'm thinking that it would be good to put a low resistance (e.g. 10 or less ohms) resistor on the discharged battery, so that its receiving charge from the charged batteries, is kept to a very low amperage until the two are equilibrated, at which time I would remove the resistor and connect the battery direct.

Image:SDA Bedini SG 7charging one input.jpg

As you see in the photo above, I have seven 6V batteries in parallel. Each is connected separately to a wire strip that is connected to the circuit, so that in effect, each battery "sees" the charge signature coming from the circuit the same. After this supercharging phase is complete, when I begin Exp. 9, rotating the batteries one at a time into the input position, what I plan on doing is to have the first battery in the set rotate into the input position, and then have the one presently on input rotate to the end of the line. My clips are such that I can do this without a heavy readjustment of leads each time I swap things out. In fact, I anticipate that I can keep the circuit running even as I am making the change.

What I'm trying to avoid here is large differences in voltage causing high amp flow of current between batteries.

I'm thinking, too, that when I start the rotation experiment, I should put two batteries, rather than just one on the front end. I would do a similar thing there as well. The newest in would not be hooked directly to the circuit, but would be buffered with a resistor, so the flow of current between the batteries is low. I'm thinking in the ballpark of a slow enough trickle that it would take half a day or even a full day for the two input batteries to come to the same level of charge, at which point, I would take the first out, cycle it to the back of the output line, with a resistor, and cycle the first in line from the output line into the input.

Peter's Reply

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/message/213

Nov. 8, 2004

Sterling,

What we do is take one of the charged batteries and put it on the

front, and take your recently discharged battery and begin charging it

by itself until it reaches the voltage of the rest of the group, and

then clip them all together.

Peter

Iceweller: Try Diodes

Sterling,

You could use more than one HV diode in series with each battery

(or untwinned/discharged one) with polarity towards the battery as

per schematic, instead of one for all (unless there's a specific

reason which eludes me for having only one diode and multiple

batteries connected in parallel). This way, each battery will receive

the charge pulse and not discharge/charge itself through it's

companion if not yet "twinned". You can also directly connect a

discharged battery without problems and will have the benefit of

recharging the discharged battery quicker as it's equivalent

impedance is lower than the others (it's at a lower voltage so it

will absorb most of the peak) until it "levels off". You can also

monitor all the batteries independantly with a voltmeter with this

setup and identify the most reactive cells. This is a

typical "observation" setup in cell testing (with the controlled

loads are connected directly to the batteries independantly with

temperature and pressure monitoring).

Chronology of Experiment 10

Nov. 3, 2004 23:52 pm

Started with Batteries 2,3,5 measuring 6.12, 6.14, 6.13 volts, respectively. Amps into circuit from Battery 8: 0.39 amps. Rotation speed: 171 rpm (100/35sec manually counted).

More

Planning Exp. 11

In experiment 10, I am supercharging all my 6V Panasonic lead acid batteries. It is taking a long time. I'm using rotation mode at about 28 ohms resistance, which is putting out ~.09 amps at around 83 rpm. Divided among the seven batteries being charged, each of them is seeing around 0.012 amps, which is a very slow/healthy charge. I have one battery on the front, #8, with a 0.5-amp trickle charger attached, which is keeping it at around 6.62 v. The circuit is drawing about 0.48 amps.

Electrically, at this setting, the input-output ratio is about 19% efficient, which is approximately what I see up and down the ohms resistance scale.

As John has pointed out, "electrically," the degree to which the output batteries are being charged does not compute to the current being measured going into them. There must be some other explanation as to why they are charging at nearly a 1:1 ration on average with the rate of discharge of the input battery, in whatever configuration I've put this in.

Right now the seven 6V batteries on output, being charged in parallel, are increasing in voltage at about a rate of 0.08 v / day. As I write this, they are moving into 6.60 volts.

I'm guessing that one of the reasons things are moving so slow through this range is because this is the optimal voltage range of the batteries, and is where they are most stable. As I contemplate this, it occurs to me that a good analogy may be the boiling point of water. Below the boiling point, every calorie of energy applied increases the temperature by a certain amount. But once you reach the boiling temperature, the curve flattens out. The temperature stays the same for quite a while even though additional energy is being applied. Then, suddenly, the boiling point is reached, the water begins to vaporize, and the temperature begins to increase incrementally again with each increase of calories in.

My dad uses this principle in his solar home using Eutectic salts that have a melting point at around room temperature. The sun bakes them during the day into liquid form, then at night, as they cool down, they dump most of their energy at 70 degrees before dropping from there.

As I look at the performance profile of these 6V batteries supplied by the manufacturer, they show essentially a flat line at the same voltage before beginning to taper into a gradually increasing drop in voltage over a given load.

Image:Discharge Characteristics 6V Panasonic LC-R064R2P.gif

(source)

Estimating from their chart, for a 0.012 amp charge rate, the optimal voltage is about 6.6 volts.

As I am reversing that process in charging these batteries, I'm guessing that I'm seeing the same principle in reverse, and once I get past this optimal region, the rate of voltage increase will go up quite a bit.

Yesterday I received three more 6V batteries, which I plan to put onto the circuit to begin conditioning/charging.

At this point, considering how long it has taken to get some more magnet wire so I can redo my coil to be able to handle a 12V tractor battery, considering how much time I have invested into charging and conditioning these 6V batteries, what I propose for Experiment 12 is to create five 12-V batteries by connecting 10 6Vs in series of 2x5. Three of those ten 6Vs will be the newer batteries that will have only recently been supercharged/conditioned.

One of these pseudo 12-V will go on the front end, running the circuit, and four of these pseudo 12-V's will be on the back end, in parallel, being charged. When a battery on the front end runs down to its 20% discharge level, I will then move it alone to the output side, and I will move the least recently placed to the back 12-V battery to the front, and will use it to bring the 20% discharged battery up to the level of the three others on the back end, at which point I will connect them in parallel.

I will run the circuit in rotation mode (versus solid state), per the specs of the Bedini SG as conveyed to us from John and Peter. I will hunt down the best input/output current draw ratio, keeping the draw from the input batteries below their factory rating for optimal discharge rate and time.

If I understand correctly, this is essentially the procedure John used on another of his systems, in which he had the thing running like that for six months, with no external charging. The primary differences will be

(1) I am using the Bedini SG simplified circuit, and I don't think John or Peter have ever run this particular test on this particular circuit, because they had just created it the day before we got there in September and

(2) I will be using two Panasonic 6Vs in series for my 12V rather than a car or tractor size 12V battery.

So, if my system does not work like theirs did, it will be for at least one of those two reasons.

Let me know if I'm missing anything.

See also

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:Jim:Data:Exp3 using a smaller wheel of much higher rpm.

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan

Directory:Bedini SG

Directory:Bedini SG:Materials | Directory:Bedini SG:Schematic | Directory:Bedini SG:Assembly Instructions | Directory:Bedini SG:Data

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications

Bedini SG egroup

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