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Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Data:Exp1 Switching in out

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You are here: PES Network > Main Page > There was an error working with the wiki: Code[1] > Directory:Bedini SG:Replications > Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES > Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan > Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Data > Exp. 1: Switching in & out batteries continually

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Image:SDA repl Bedini SG b 90.jpg

'DATA from Sterling D. Allan's "Directory:Bedini SG:Experiments:Endless Rotation of Two Batteries" on His Replication of John Bedini's "Directory:Bedini SG"'

Experiment commenced Oct. 9, 2004, 8:50 pm MDT. Ran for 100 hours. Concluded Oct. 30.

Data Synopsis ( as of Oct. 13 5:17 am MDT)

Image:SDA rep data exp1 every3hours 7sets Bedini SG comments 400.gif

Summary of observations : The test ran for 100 hours. The input battery charged the output battery. Each time the batteries are switched, again, the input battery charge the output battery. The average voltage drops gradually over time. After 100 hours of running, the experiment was terminated. Peter Lindemann advised that (1) it takes several cycles for the batteries to become conditioned, and (2) for a continual rotation scenario to be even plausible, the batteries should be 12-V, with one on the front and four on the back, cycled in turn to the front. What has not been calculated yet (though some data has been collected for the calculation) is the amount of friction going into the rotation of the wheel, and a general measure of the efficiency of the motor/charger system.

Experimental Set-up

Purpose

By swapping the input and output (receiving charge) batteries every 12 hours, continually, the hope was to to illustrate the infusion of some other energy source (i.e. radiant energy) via the circuit geometry. Purportedly, the batteries take some time to become conditioned to receiving such energy, so the effect is not expected to appear right away. Peter Lindemann says an external charge may even be necessary in the process prior to the time that the conditioning takes hold. The linear nature of the data that has shown up in the first test will make the collection of data fairly simple. -- Sterling D. Allan (9:10 pm MDT, Oct. 11, 2004)

Note (Oct. 20): Reason for termination of experiment : I misunderstood what Peter had said in his description of the Bedini system. He said he had one battery on the front side, and four on the back side. What I misunderstood, is that I had thought this left three for use elsewhere, while one could then be brought to the front to charge four more. What they did was take one from the back side (the least recently placed there), and put it on the front side, leaving the three others there, while cycling the front battery to the back end with the three others. He saw John repeat this for six months.

: Because I misunderstood this, I thought that one battery on the front and one on the back would easily demonstrate the principle I thought they had observed.

: Another clarification that came out is that at the commencement of the cycling, they first "supercharged" four batteries on the back end, putting a trickle charger on the front side, and left them there until the four on the back end would receive no more charge. That, apparently, plays a key part in conditioning the batteries for this process.

Materials and Instruments

I am using the materials as set forth in the Directory:Bedini SG:Materials page.

Four 6V, Panasonic lead-acid 4.2 Ah/20 h. Source: DigiKey.com. Two to switch between input/output, and two for a control.

A report of instruments being used is pending.

Protocol

I am using the protocol as set forth at "Directory:Bedini SG:Experiments:Endless Rotation of Two Batteries"

Experimental set-up modifications : (1) did not charge or discharge any of the four batteries to begin, but started from the same state of charge as the batteries arrived from DigiKey

: (2) taking rpm readings.

: (3) taking readings every 5-10 minutes on average for the entire first and second 12 hour period, except for two ~1-hour spots for sleep toward end of first period, when stabilization had been clearly confirmed

Coaching

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Lindemann Coaching - Suggestions about the Bedini "School Girl" (simplified) replication and experiment. (Oct. 10, 2004)

Directory:Bedini SG:Materials:Batteries:Lindemann - Peter Lindemann comments on what he has observed first-hand through experimental procedure. (Oct. 11, 2004)

Photos & Video

Image:SDA rep data exp1 Bedini SG close left 111.gif

Video/audio (5.1 Mb mpeg) - shows motor running, general layout.

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Data:Exp1 Switching in out:Photos

Image:SDA repl Bedini SG b 400.jpg

Data Reports

Overview

General trend plots will be posted here. Pending.

Average voltage over time (of the input/output batteries).

Amps over time.

RPM of Wheel over time.

Battery capacity test at end (for all four batteries)

Expected/Prediction:

Average voltage will drop linearly at first, and then begin to curve as the magnets become conditioned, and will then turn upward as the radiant energy effect begins to come into play. Eventually the experiment will need to be halted so the batteries do not overcharge. (That is the hope, to be proven experimentally through this set-up.)

Amps and RPM are largely a function of the circuit geometry, and will remain fairly constant throughout the procedure, day after day.

Starting Voltages (As they arrived from DigiKey)

#1 - first input battery: 6.37 V

#3 - first output (receiving) battery: 6.34 V

#2 - control battery (measured throughout testing): 6.36 V

#4 - control battery (measured only at beginning and very end): 6.37 V

Ending Voltages

To be reported no sooner than Nov. 8, 2004, after 30 days .

General Observations

The input and output amperages stay essentially constant for each test set, but sometimes differ from one test to the next.

The speed of the wheel is a function of input amperage and in completely unaffected by the voltage level. Lower amps result in higher rpm.

The amps/rpm return to an optimal within about two minutes when disturbed by a disconnect of the input battery when switching meter leads to test amperage (not done very often).

Specific Tests
1.1 Earlier Comment

(Excuse the exuberance This is kept here for historic purposes, documenting the initial reaction to the data as it first began to emerge in the first three hours.)

Oct. 9, 2004

Preliminary overview is encouraging. First three hours shows 0.17 volt increase in charging batteries while operating batteries show 0.06 decrease. Rate (of output voltage change compared to input voltage change) in first hour was 6x, whereas it has dropped to 3x after three hours sum. Input amps = 0.18 has remained steady, with occasional blip to 0.17 (e.g. after disconnecting briefly to hook up meter). Amps going to batteries being charged: 0.05 has remained steady, rarely blipping to 0.04. Digits shown after decimal point: two (giving three significant digits for the voltage, but just one significant digit for output amperage). Speed of wheel is steady at around 109 rpm +/- 4. Neon bulb lights up when the charging battery lead is disconnected (e.g. to hook up amp meter) briefly. Approximately 70 data points taken in first three hours. Graph pending. Photos pending.

Exp. 1.1 First 12 hours

One 6-V battery input running the motor one 6-V battery receiving a charge.

Commenced Oct. 9, 8:51:00 pm MDT. Ended Oct. 10, 8:52 am MDT. (~12 hours).

Starting Voltages (As they arrived from DigiKey)

input battery (#1): 6.37 V

output (receiving) battery (#3): 6.34 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Ending Voltages

input battery (#1): 6.05 V

output (receiving) battery (#3): 6.68 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Other Data

Wheel RPM: 105 beginning, speading gradually to 109 rpm at the end.

Input Amps beginning: 0.18, tapering to 0.17/0.18 (flickering)

Output Amps beginning: 0.05 end: 0.04

Image:SDA rep data exp1 Bedini SG close left a.gif

Photo of left half of two-pages of data.

(Click on image for details)

Observations

The input voltage change goes linear within about 30 minutes. At one hour, it becomes perfectly linear.

After about two hours, the voltage reading on the charging of the receiving battery takes about 1.5 horus before it becomes nearly perfectly linear.

Once linear, the rate of change (roughly [more precise data collected report pending]) in the input battery was 15 occurences of 0.01 volt changes over 7 hours, while the output battery saw 11 occurrences of 0.01 volt changes over the same period of time.

In the first hour, the output voltage change jumped rapidly at first, then hyperbolically tapered until it became linear at around two hours. It jumped from 6.34 volts to 6.50 volts in the first hour and a half.

The input battery voltage change from 6.37 to 6.30 within a minute, and then tapered almost immediately to a linear discharge for the remainder of the 12 hours.

For more images of this first 12-hour data set, see: Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Data:Exp1 Switching in out:Photos

Exp. 1.2 Second 12 hours

Input and output batteries switched.

(Wheel slowed but did not stop while switching batteries. Did not touch wheel but let circuit bring it back up to speed.)

Commenced Oct. 10, 8:55:55 am MDT. Ended Oct. 10, 8:55 pm MDT. (~12 hours)

Starting Voltages

input battery (#3): 6.52 V

output (receiving) battery (#1): 6.09 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Ending Voltages

input battery (#3): 6.13 V

output (receiving) battery (#1): 6.28 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Other Data

Wheel RPM: 129 rpm steady

Input Amps beginning: 0.16, tapering to 0.16/0.15 (flickering)

Output Amps beginning: 0.04 end: 0.03

Observations

After 1.5 hours, the change in voltages look to be stabilized.

Voltages changed substantially in first half hour, tapering within first hour.

Haven't graphed yet, but most likely have become linear as in first 12 hours at approximately the same rate of charge/discharge seen there.

Difference : While in the first 12 hours, the charging battery saw a large voltage increase over first hour, in second 12 hours, that battery, not on the input position, discharged by a similar amount in first hour. (haven't graphed yet).

Graph of interim data pending.

Exp. 1.3 Third 12 hours

Input and output batteries switched.

(Wheel slowed but did not stop while switching batteries. Did not touch wheel but let circuit bring it back up to speed.)

Commenced Oct. 10, 21:34:30 pm MDT. Finished Oct. 11, 9:44 am MDT. (~12 hours)

Starting Voltages

input battery (#1): 6.24 V

output (receiving) battery (#3): 6.19 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Ending Voltages

input battery (#1): 5.84 V

output (receiving) battery (#3): 6.45 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Other Data

Wheel RPM: 109 rpm steady

Input Amps beginning to end: 0.18

Output Amps beginning to end: 0.04.

Observations

There was not an initial jump in voltages over the first hour, as seen in the first two 12-hour tests. Goes to linear almost immediately. This is probably due to the fact that the starting voltages are virtually identical between the input and output battery.

Both (input/output) batteries hit 6.20 volts less than two minutes into the test, and the linear plot followed thereafter.

Graph of data pending.

Wheel Deceleration Test

I was told that a nominal calculation can be run to determine the frictional losses of the wheel/rotor by tabulating the time it takes to get to half the speed of the running state.

The wheel/rotor was stopped after exp. 1.3 to give time to prepare for deceleration test. Until that time, it had been running continuously through exp. 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3, even when switching the input/output batteries.

To run the deceleration test, the wheel was started back up on same set-up (exp. 1.3 rotating at 109 rpm), then the circuit was disconnected (Oct. 11, 2004, 10:57:30 am MDT) and the wheel let coast to a stop, taking data of its deceleration characteristics. A time on the clock was manually written for every five rotations of the wheel.

My wife watched the wheel turn and counted outloud: "1, 2, 3, 4, 5,1,2,3,4,5 (etc)." Every time she said "five," I recorded the time on the clock. t = 0 is the moment we disconnected the battery and let the system wind down as a function of its resistances.

Coincidentally, the wheel stopped exactly when the last "five" was read out.

Image:Wheel Deceleration SDA Bedini SG Exp1 041011 400.gif

Click here to download .xls (MS Excel) spreadsheet with data from 109 rpm deceleration test.

Follow-up : I need to run a deceleration test for each of the main run speeds observed in the various tests done, in order to obtain a frictional loss value for that specific speed. However, the 109 rpm is the speed seen most often, most likely as a function of the circuit geometry, and should be adequate to arrive at a "Watts lost" (or generated) value.

Exp. 1.4 Fourth 12 hours

Input and output batteries switched.

Commenced Oct. 11, 11:08:00 am MDT. Ended Oct. 11, 11:07:30 pm MDT. (~12 hours)

Starting Voltages (at rpm = 0 just prior to start-up)

input battery (#3): 6.37 V

output (receiving) battery (#1): 5.89 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Ending Voltages

input battery (#3): 5.96 V

output (receiving) battery (#1): more than 6.11 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Other Data

Wheel RPM: 109 rpm steady

Input Amps beginning to end: 0.18

Output Amps beginning to end: 0.04.

Observations

The rapid flux change in voltage at the beginning of the test lasted around ten minutes before a linear curve commenced. (This is a guess, I haven't physically plotted the data yet.)

Control battery (#2) is beginning to flash 6.35 V occasionally, indicating that it is depleting, most likely from the frequent meter checks of it, along with the other two batteries at each data point.

Exp. 1.5 Fifth 12 hours

Input and output batteries switched.

(Wheel slowed but did not stop while switching batteries. Gave it a little push once batteries hooked back up to bring it back up to speed.)

Commenced Oct. 11, 11:08:30 pm MDT. Ended Oct. 12, 11:10:20 am MDT. (12:02 hours)

Starting Voltages (1 minute after circuit hooked up see exp 1.4 end point for voltages prior)

input battery (#1): 6.05 V

output (receiving) battery (#3): 6.00 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Ending Voltages

input battery (#1): 5.58 V

output (receiving) battery (#3): 6.22 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Other Data

Wheel RPM: 105

Input Amps beginning: .17 end: .16/.17 (readout switching back and forth)

Output Amps beginning: .04 end: .04.

Observations

Rapid voltage change at first stabilized into (probably) linear after about seven minutes, which is where the voltages read the same: 6.02.

Control battery (#2) is starting to read 6.35 V for a fraction of a second before finally reading 6.36, indicating a drainage from so many data readings.

Between 9:22 and 10:40 am I had the blinds open while away, and realized upon returning that the sun was beating down on the control battery. It was quite warm, and read 6.36/37 Volts for less than 6 minutes, before returning to a steady reading of 6.36 volts.

Exp. 1.6 Sixth 12 hours

Input and output batteries switched.

(Wheel slowed but did not stop while switching batteries. Gave it a little push once batteries hooked back up to bring it back up to speed.)

Commenced Oct. 12, 11:12:38 am MDT. Ended Oct. 12, 11:12:30 pm MDT. (12 hours)

Starting Voltages (after circuit connection)

input battery (#3): 6.17 V

output (receiving) battery (#1): 5.64 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Ending Voltages

input battery (#3): 5.79 V

output (receiving) battery (#1): 5.86 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Other Data

Wheel RPM: 126 rpm steady

Input Amps beginning to end: 0.15

Output Amps beginning to end: .03.

Observations

The rapid flux change in voltage at the beginning lasted around half an hour before stabilizing to a linear plot. (This is a guess, I haven't physically plotted the data yet.)

By the end of the test, control battery (#2) was displaying 6.35 V for nearly three seconds before displaying 6.36 V.

Exp. 1.7 Seventh 12 hours

Input and output batteries switched.

(Wheel slowed but did not stop while switching batteries. Gave it a little push once batteries hooked back up to bring it back up to speed.)

Commenced Oct. 12, 11:13:45 pm MDT. Scheduled to finish Oct. 13, 11:14 am MDT. (~12 hours)

Starting Voltages (after circuit connection)

input battery (#1): 5.82 V

output (receiving) battery (#3): 5.83 V

control battery (#2): 6.36 V

Ending Voltages

input battery (#1): ___ V

output (receiving) battery (#3): ____ V

control battery (#2): ____ V

Other Data

Wheel RPM: 103 steady

Input Amps beginning: 0.17/.16 (readout switching back and forth)

Output Amps beginning: .04.

Observations

Rapid initial voltage change stabilized after about ten minutes.

Control battery (#2) is starting to flick to 6.35 V even after reaching 6.36 reading.

From t=10 min (after initial rapid voltage change) to t=3 h, 20 min (time of this report), the rate of change (decrease V) of input batteries was 0.21 V, while the rate of change (increase V) of the battering being charged was 0.09 V.

The rate of decline of voltage in the input battery is by far the highest seen yet, going from 5.81 V at 11:14:40 pm Oct. 12 down to 5.30 V at 5:05 am Oct. 13, while the charging battery has only nominally increased, going from 5.83 V to 5.97 V in the same period of time. May be crashing. May put the fourth battery in on the input side to charge battery V1, and sacrifice the control battery 2 to charge battery V3.

Image:041012 SDA Bedini Exp1-7 Batt1Crash 150.gif

There was an error working with the wiki: Code[2].

Graph : Battery 1 did crash for a few minutes, but because I was watching it closely, I caught it, disconnected it from the input, and it rebounded quite well. Later experiments show that it was damaged slightly, but not too bad.

See also

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan:Data - index

Directory:Bedini SG:Experiments:Endless Rotation of Two Batteries - experimental protocol.

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Susan Carter

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Sterling Allan - main index includes chronology of build, other replications by SDA when built.

Image:Susan Carter Bedini SG unpainted crop 100.jpg

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:PES:Susan Carter - Achieved rotation Oct. 11, 2004. Data being collected Oct. 12.

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications

Directory:Bedini SG - main index

Directory:Bedini SG:Data

Bedini SG egroup

- Directory

- Main Page

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